Assisted dying and coercion

[ArabellaScott]

This is live right now, so I'm not sure how well linking to it will work. Copy-pasting below, aswell.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cy5k0qyled2t

'Rachel Clarke, a palliative care doctor, opts to answer a question about coercion and whether some MPs are right to feel concerned about this when considering the bill. (Earlier, MPs heard how medical and clinic staff are trained in safeguarding, though a retired GP acknowledged coercion was hard to spot.)
Clarke says she'd "strongly push back" on the suggestion coercion is something all medical staff are trained in spotting.
"I'm the kind of doctor who believes there is nothing to be gained by sugar-coating reality...about shortcomings, failings, areas where my profession the rest of the NHS are getting things wrong", she tells MPs.
"It is my clinical experience that not only are the majority of doctors not necessarily trained in spotting coercion explicitly, they're often not trained explicitly in having so-called advanced care planning conversations with patients around the topic of death and dying."'

Well good. Why should the disabled be collateral damage in your battle to restrict assisted dying?

whut?

It isn't assisted dying if you don't do it yourself. You now have someone doing it to you, which changes the whole conversation. Argue for that if it is what you want but atm it is not in the bill.

I'm not sure this has been posted -

'"The worst thing potentially that we've ever done to domestic abuse victims"

-sorry, writing in haste!

Well, it's now law from 2027 (I think) in the Isle of Man.
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/4306631/posts
Proposed laws to give terminally ill adults on the Isle of Man the right to choose to end their own lives have been agreed by the Manx parliament.
It means the bill can now be sent for Royal Assent, making it the first parliament in the British Isles to take this step.
Under the provisions in the Assisted Dying Bill 2023, adults with a prognosis of 12 months or less to live would be given the right to choose to die.
Those eligible would have to be over the age of 18, and have lived on the island for five years.
The Royal Assent process is where the monarch formally approves a bill passed by parliament for it to become law.
Members of the Legislative Council agreed to the latest changes made to the Assisted Dying Bill 2023 by the House of Keys at a sitting earlier.

This may well be delayed until 2029 which may see the whole thing kicked into the long grass:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/f1d998fe53d99

Ms Leadbeater is thought to have climbed down after civil servants responsible for drafting amendments told her the Bill was unworkable.

Oh what a surprise!

'In Wales, the future of assisted dying looks even more uncertain. In a surprising move, MPs on the Bill committee voted 12 to 11 in favour of Sarah Olney MP’s amendment to require Senedd approval before any changes take effect in Wales. '

What an utter shambles. Helps nobody. Just a waste of everyone's time.

Oh gosh, I hope Scotland does not end up the only place to push this through, and people end up travelling here to die.

I'm hoping it won't, Talulahalula.

'Proposed legislation to allow assisted dying in Scotland is outside Holyrood's powers, the Scottish government has claimed.
Health Secretary Neil Gray said issues relating to lethal drugs were reserved to Westminster.
He said it was the government’s view that “the bill in its current form is outside the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament”.'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g5w299npjo

I can’t admit to having followed the select committee proceedings in any detail, but thank goodness for people like Danny Kruger politely pointing out the myriad of shortcomings.

There seems to have been so little thought and consultation with those at the coalface that we still have very little idea about who it could help, when and how, who would pay and where (if anywhere) a profit might be made.

it was all soundbites and “how dare you dissent; I’m going to ignore you”.

Let’s hope that Kim uses the next 4 years constructively.

I never thought Danny Kruger would be my hero, I disagree with him on many things, but he's the kind of MP one can be proud of. His work on the committee has been nothing less than heroic. It's a terrible bill, and I'm not against Assisted Dying in principle, but this wasn't the way to do it.
Let's hope it's kicked into the very long grass.
And I blame Charlie Falconer, he seems to be an expert on pushing through terrible legislation and I believe he was the person in the shadows pushing this.

I've just been watching PMQs. Did anyone else see the exchange between Leadbeater and Starmer?

She stood up and asked him to join in thanking those involved in working on her Bill. Then she asked him if he agreed that the Bill, when issues sorted, should be implemented asap.

Starmer agreed that thanks be given to those working, and said it was important to get legislation right, including Members' Bills having had a Second Reading. Legislation should only be passed when everything had been sorted.

He was notably silent on asap. She looked like she had swallowed a wasp.

So it looks like the Bill has been shelved.

@Mollyollydolly I agree about Danny Kruger. An unlikely caped crusader, but he has been diligent in his role, and I admire him for that.

Thanks, larklane, that's interesting to hear.

Should start at Leadbeter's question:

https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/f1085019-3dd5-403f-899f-8f69bf0fb907?in=12:18:17

That's reassuring.

I wonder what has stopped the Labour Party or the leadership step back from being so positive about pushing it through.

If MSM is to be believed most people support it, and without being cynical Labour needs to do something that people believe in.

So it must have been something quite in depth that made them take a step back.

I wonder if they have had some sort of legal feed back.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/mps-secretary-of-state-nhs-high-court-commons-b1218860.html

I find the man who does this series (now cancelled after years) a right paid, but listened to this because it is Liz Carr and her campaign against assisted dying.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3ct5sw1

https://www.thetimes.com/article/e0aac539-91ce-47f5-83a2-2de2cd69f5fc?shareToken=3c5f048e486c30f470bcb56dcc4e5e7a

'This week, as a legislative process that has ­revealed both the best and worst of parliament dragged on, it emerged that assisted dying may not be introduced in England and Wales until 2029, two years later than promised by Ms Leadbeater. The Department of Health and Social Care fears that it is unworkable. Of course, 2029 will be an election year, and supporters of the bill fear it will politicise the legislation and put paid to its chances of ever taking effect. Those opposed to state-sanctioned suicide may be forgiven a bittersweet sense of vindication. The delay is nothing if not a tacit admission that the bill is not fit for purpose, its provisions a mess, and its journey through parliament an unconscionable waste of time.

I am pleased to see the delay.

It’s axiomatic that organisations end up supporting abuses they were set up to remedy.

Even so, I can’t quite grasp that the NHS that was showcased to the world in the 2012 opening ceremony as a leading example of British values has somehow accreted itself as a supporter of the Assisted Dying service (because it cannot meet the needs of some people) and coerced volunteered its staff to be Affirmers in Chief of identity ideology.

This is the reality of what's coming if it isn't stopped. It's all about the money in the end.
By Kathleen Stock.
Another parliamentary vote on assisted suicide is due on Friday. So far,
keen supporters of Kim Leadbeater’s bill have tended to talk in stirring abstract nouns: “choice”, “dignity”, “autonomy” and “control”. But last week, though you might have missed it, we got a chance to see what happens when grand ideals come into contact with the grubby realities of the systems we already have. The day after the local elections, the government slipped out two reports on the projected “impact” of legalising assisted death. And you can understand why officials might have wanted to see them buried.

www.thetimes.com/article/02740c07-2d33-4a66-8408-7a38003a8599?shareToken=7d3772db9c42b476e56bc70e3c229e44

https://archive.ph/3iGP1

Archive of excellent Times article that brings distressing clarity.

... the impact assessment says the potential savings could reach £59.6 million a year in “unutilised healthcare” by the 10th year of the law’s introduction, in addition to £18.3 million in unpaid pensions, £6.2 million in unpaid attendance allowance, and £3.17 million in unpaid personal independence payment, as well as £10.5 million in unpaid care homes fees and £8.69 million in unpaid domiciliary care fees*.
https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/sinister-government-analysis-of-assisted-dying-bill-adds-weight-to-fears-of-financial-incentives-for-deaths/

The assisted suicide bill has shown parliament at its worst
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-assisted-suicide-bill-has-shown-parliament-at-its-worst/

This article is a reminder of the very unparliamentary way this bill has been rushed through, and in doing so not allowed proper consultation, input and time.

Article archived at https://archive.is/810VN