Denton, Gamergate and now Blake Lively

[RethinkingLife]

This article is a decent overview of not only how straightforward it is to destroy reputations, but how trivially easy it is to undermine women and feminism even or especially among those who consider themselves media savvy.

I grieve for how easy it is to operate from this playbook and it seems to consolidate tactics that have been all too successful.

“You know we can bury anyone,” crisis management expert Melissa Nathan wrote to PR executive Jennifer Abel, one of thousands of messages subpoenaed by Lively…
In a subsequent message, Nathan told Abel that Baldoni didn’t realise how lucky he was given the allegations they had heard about his on-set conduct…
In response to the social media response “really ramping up” in terms of criticism of Lively, Nathan texted Abel: “It’s actually sad because it just shows you have people really want to hate on women.” A “scenario planning” document by Nathan’s firm, TAG PR, said it could “explore planting stories about the weaponisation of feminism and how people in [Lively’s] circle like Taylor Swift have been accused of utilising these tactics to ‘bully’ into getting what they want.”…
… the idea of the Hollywood and PR machines perverting that concept to discredit a woman apparently intent on ensuring the safety of herself and others – on the chaotic set of a film about ending cycles of domestic abuse – is a level of 4D chess that is terrifying in its imperceptibility, effectiveness and potential prevalence.
There is a chilling disconnect in the way the crisis and publicity parties rejoice in their apparent PR victory – “So much mixed messaging It’s actually really funny if you think about it,” Nathan texted Abel – and the covert warfare they allegedly used to manipulate the tabloid media into parroting their narrative. “This went so well I am fucking dying … We have the four majors standing down on HR complaint,” Nathan told Abel. When MailOnline published a piece in August asking “Is Blake Lively set to be CANCELLED?” Abel texted Nathan: “You really outdid yourself with this piece.” These methods are deadly, acutely attuned to how to form and nurture media and social media sentiment against a woman. As Taylor Lorenz writes in her newsletter User Mag, it takes its cues directly from the Gamergate playbook.
How many women has this happened to? How many smear campaigns have seduced our most base and ungenerous instincts into swallowing their line?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/dec/24/blake-lively-allegations-actor-it-ends-with-us-justin-baldoni

Probably, but the publicity did lead me to download all of Róisín’s work, which you dear reader, might choose to do too.
So much more to her than The Time Is Now!

Excellent artist.

The NYT article suggests this is not the first time that this particular journalist has released a video portraying someone in a poor light at the same time that one of the crisis PR people is working against them.

On a side note, how the fuck did we get to a point where there is an actual awards ceremony for men who are decent to women?! Surely this is just expected, they don’t need a fucking prize for not being an arsehole

That they directed their smear campaign at an intelligent woman with financial resources was one of many mistakes. But it’s still chilling to see how easy it is to lie, manipulate and use these tactics in the short era of social media. How willingly the public engage in virulent and sustained misogynist attacks. How much easier it will become to refine propaganda and misinformation in the age of AI and based on the massive amounts of data collected daily on each of us.

I know she's an actress in her own right, but to do this to the wife of a Hollywood power player like Ryan Reynolds beggars belief.

How did they think they could get away with it?

Why is your point to wait to see if there’s a trial before commenting? I don’t understand your logic and would be interested to hear more.

Whether or not there’s a trial, it seems entirely reasonable on a FWR thread to discuss the hiring of a PR firm to destroy a woman’s reputation for raising harassment concerns. Irrespective of whether that campaign went actively live or was a happy coincidence of timing for Baldoni and his publicist, they clearly planned one.

What are your thoughts on BL’s set of requests as described by InvisibleBuffy · Yesterday 16:07? There’s been no active denial that what BL requested (‘no more…’) hadn’t happened.

Regardless of the smear campaign, those behaviours conjure up a particularly egregious picture of despicable sexual harassment. I think it’s easy to do so because we’ve all been there with men making sexually explicit ’jokes’.

Right. Off MN on Christmas morning and the depressing nature of so-called feminist male allies and onto nicer things.

I don't understand why we're invited to disregard communications between parties that outline strategies and congratulate each other for actions and outcomes. I'd welcome elaboration, particularly as it seems common in the US to comment on a range of matters before they come to trial.
However, my overall interest is in the strategy and the effectiveness of what seems to be a common playbook. Even one of the strategists reflected that it's remarkably easy to tap into a stream of misogyny (I paraphrase) to 'bury' a woman.

We often get excellent DARVO here but this is outstanding:

@Aspargar Yesterday 17:05

Feels like everyone is jumping to conclusions, just like they did around the time of the film premiere.
The texts released were talking about implementing a smear campaign, which while shocking to some, is what happens in the Hollywood PR world. However, what we don’t have evidence of yet, is how and if it was implemented. So far, those accused have come forward to say any discussion didn’t have an impact on BLs reputation, because nothing was carried out as part of a smear campaign. They are alleging their work was made redundant by the internet alight with stories about BL and her past behaviour.

'shocking to some' = 'you poor unsophisticated plebs' (not like well informed me) doesn't it?

No indication of any idea that many people specifically object to 'what happens in the Hollywood PR world' or in the tabloid newspaper world (biggest employer of private investigators), or Parliamentary whips black ops world, or any the other ways that a cynical, manipulative, and misogynist establishment exerts control.

Gosh they don't like people speaking up, do they?

Time to ask yourself how many other opinions you have had formed for you by PR and media repetition and editing.

Remember when Seth Rogan decided to blacklist Katherine Heigl after she dared to criticise his film making?

Yes. It's oh-so-surprising that these PRs would say that nothing happened, honest guvnor. However the text evidence in BL's legal papers paint a very different picture. Texts congratulating each other for a hit piece that appeared in the Daily Mail, and gloating that they are "crushing it" on Reddit due to the work from a team specialising in astroturfing.

They are in a bit of a difficult position really.

Option 1:- Yes we did it. We are actually really good at our jobs but the fallout of this is likely to be so toxic that we would be destroyed.

Option 2:- We came up with the idea but decided to go out for lunch instead. And then the internet did it as if by magic so we just pretended it was us as we like being paid. Yes - that’s right - hiring us has no impact whatsoever - so please pay us lots of money.

The sad fact is expect women are best at orcherstrating campaigns against women. I've never cared about Lively one way or another and only vaguely looked at all the fuss earlier this year and did just think 'OK, so she had a bad day and gave a standoffish interview a few years ago, why should anyone care?'

It's noteworthy how many arsehole men get a free pass in Hollywood to be 'difficult' because 'he's a genius actor' or 'he's a box office draw', but women who complain about men, refuse to sleep with poweful male players, or commit the sin of having boundaries get the dreaded 'difficult to work with' and that's enough to finish them off.

Hollywood has always lied to us and I think it's okay for the public to be taken in but journalists really ought to know better. And should be investigating on the public's behalf. I say should but that would take too much effort and risk "access", the chance to go to fancy places and events, and the loss of many many freebies.

@Mumofteenandtween true.

I am intrigued by what they didn't put in the texts and emails, where they say they can't write the full details of their plan down. What they did think was ok to document is already pretty damning - the stuff they didn't put in writing must be beyond the pale.

So far, those accused have come forward to say any discussion didn’t have an impact on BLs reputation, because nothing was carried out as part of a smear campaign. They are alleging their work was made redundant by the internet alight with stories about BL and her past behaviour.

What a crock of bollocks.

Of COURSE they would say that, not least to save their own reputations and careers but because Lively had an addendum to her contract which said she wouldn't suffer any ill effects from the studio as a result of her complaints. They'd be up for breach of contract.

And it's rather contradictory to say "They didn't do anything but the things they didn't do didn't adversely affect her anyway"

Whether you believe its bollocks or not, that’s their stance. They will have to produce evidence of such if it goes to court, to back their claim. Just like BL will have to produce evidence to back hers.
But the point isn’t to explore the evidence. The point is for BL to put out her side to the press (see the NYT) have the public turn their opinion and to seek an out of court settlement.She won’t want it to go to court either. This is a classic way to manipulate the public.

To seek restitution for damage to a reputation/career- you must prove there is a link between what you are accusing others of and actual material damage.

So she has to prove that their PR smear resulted in negative press, which resulted in BL losing a contract etc.

So it’s not a contradiction to state they’ve had no impact on BLs circumstances because they didn’t conduct a smear campaign. You have to state that 1) you never did what was alleged 2) because you never did what was alleged, there is no link to any adverse outcome BL has had 3) that the negative press can be attributed to elsewhere.

The whole thing is very wierd and people on twitter say it could be another heard/depp type legal thing.
Isn't Blake Lively one of the slebs who bullied the PoW into going public with her cancer? She doesn't strike me as a particularly nice person.

Well in that case her treatment is completely okay isn't it.

No idea.

Would you say this level of outcome (albeit for the list of requests/demands re: safeguarding and dignity) would somehow justify this level of (displaced) retribution for that act?

For those very familiar with this world or who are one of the parties involved – particularly those involved on the Nathan / Abel / Baldoni side – the outcome of the legal action is the most important thing.

For the rest of us, blowing the lid off the methods and ecosystem of manipulation is at least as important as justice for those wronged.

This is like the Murdoch and other media companies phone hacking scandal.

We plebs get to see in broad daylight the games they have been playing with us.

They’re all playing games.

BL/RR are the biggest game players out there. He owns his own marketing firm. This law suit is just PR. They’re looking at a settlement.

Both of them. But particularly him, trades off the nice guy image. They are reeling from her negative press.

If they refuse a settlement, then fair enough, they may believe what they say. But I doubt it though, it’s just PR at work. The super rich use the legal system as part of their PR campaigns often. Though usually injunctions. That’s why they will settle, having released all the points they want known to the public, they won’t want any evidence scrutinised/cross examined.

None of us know what actually happened. As a person who didn’t know any of these people until this blew up I’d be very wary of believing anyone, including BL.

As a family we discussed it yesterday, us “adults” with the “youngsters”. They know all about the film, book, gossip girls social media manipulation etc. Told us there had recently been a lot negativity about BL. But we delved deeper. Follow the money …

So my opinion is I can’t fully figure out the truth. So I’ll wait. But I’ve gleaned some info.

• BL is a very big star
• married to a big star
• together they are a power couple and very wealthy
• JB is a star, he produced the movie, he seems sleazy to me bur is a sex god to young women
• he was objectified in the movie, seems movie is about rape/consent
• book was crap, but widely read
• movie was crap, but it surprisingly made millions
• JB has porn issues, but “pretends” he’s for women and he gives out to other men
• JB the male feminist, pleeeeze …
• the movie was nearly finalised when the screen writers guild strike happened
• at that moment BL made a list of 30 demands, see post earlier
• she brought in her husband RR
• script was changed, ch ching for RR
• BL got a Taylor Swift song added, ch ching for TS, her friend
• BL ca ching got some extra production rights
• Good negotiations BL and hubby RR
• or hit the production at a critical moment, ummm
• production had to agree or it was nada, so they capitulated but were mad, I’d sure as hell be mad, so did they hire the nasty publicity people, possibly

@Cailin66 the list of demands wasn't unreasonable IMO. I'd be fed up of someone followed me about claiming to be talking to my dead parent, in between asking questions about my sex life, and spending hours crying in my trailer about how old and fat I looked in the publicity photos for his film. I'd be furious at him foisting one of his unqualified friends to play an obstetrician who was inches away from a hanky covering my genitals, instead of a professional actor.

My understanding is that the list was the result of various meetings about JB's behaviour on set - and it wasn't just BL who'd complained about him.

I don't doubt that BL has her own very experienced PR team guiding her. But it's telling that JB's agent and his podcast co-host have both dropped him like a hot brick. BL is a Hollywood veteran who is powerful and has extensive resources to fight this - what about all of the other women who are jobbing actors and who don't dare speak out because they can't afford to lose their livelihood or fight a legal battle?

And as for the "ch ching" - really? Damn right I'd want the script changed if my creepy co-star was constantly trying to add in extra sex scene and explicit content, which wasn't what I'd signed on for. And can you blame her husband for rewriting scenes to take this shit out?

Don't forget that the studio ultimately agreed to RR doing this. And why shouldn't she get a production credit? It was her final cut of the film that the studio used.

For someone posting on the feminism boards, you appear to have a jaundiced view of a woman who has just spoken out about sexual harassment.

Ch ching?

Really? As per her demanded changes listed above, these were that he didn't 'improvise' during sex scenes, and this would include the ones where there was rape or sexual violence. That he had to stop talking about the size of his genitals and barging in on her while she was dressing. That he needed to get explicit consent before touching her or her team intimately.
That he couldn't keep demanding she do nude or sex scenes with him that weren't in the script?
And how fucking bad must it have been that she had to spell it all this out in such detail?
No woman on the planet puts that kind of requirement in because she wants money.
But for what it's worth, I hope she does take him to the absolute cleaners and I hope every single other Hollywood asshole absolutely shits himself at the precedent it sets.
But hey, once she was a bit abrupt in an interview so both sides, eh? 😒

As an aside, there is a moment in the Deadpool & Wolverine film where Nicepool makes a sexist comment about Ladypool and immediately excuses it with something like "It's okay. I identify as a feminist" to Deadpool's clear disdain.
I believe Ryan Reynolds was one of the co-writers so I'm guessing he had a particular person in mind when he put in that particular line.