Lisa Nandy ‘No pensioner will be worse off this year’

[IwantToRetire]

So many threads this could have been added to, but on one level you have to admire the sheer bravado on LN making this statement. So thought I would acknowledge her grasp on facts by giving her a headline!

The culture secretary has defended Labour’s winter fuel payment cut, insisting “No pensioner will be worse off this winter”.

Lisa Nandy insisted the government is taking “tough decisions to stabilize the economy”, when she appeared on ITV’s Peston show on Wednesday evening (9 October).

Ms Nandy insisted: “We haven’t taken £300 from pensioners

“There are many hundreds of families paying hundreds of pounds more in rent or mortgages because of the economic chaos caused by the previous government.”

Ms Nandy said the government is working hard to ensure the poorest pensioners are on pensioner credit.

She said: “No pensioner will be worse off this winter than the last winter.”

Culture secretary defends winter fuel payment cut: ‘No pensioner will be worse off this year’ (yahoo.com)

“We have to accept - you have to accept - there will be hundreds of thousands of the poorest pensioners under the £11,400 income you will not reach this year,” Lewis said passionately.

“You are taking money out of their hands. Do you accept the truth, the reality is that's what will practically happen. I'm saying it, Age UK are saying it, others are saying it.

"So let's be honest, you're willing to accept the collateral damage of hundreds of thousands of the poorest pensioners, many on dementia, not getting the winter fuel payment."

Nandy, visibly taken aback, responded that she was “not willing to accept that” (clip of exchangevia link below).

https://www.thenational.scot/news/24640552.labour-minister-squirms-martin-lewis-grills-live-tv/

It was 3 degrees here this morning , there will have been pensioners sitting in the cold and I’m sure Mr and Mrs Starmer turned up the thermostat to 21 - nice and toasty and no one cold in their house . It’s just morally the wrong thing to do . it doesn’t affect me personally my parents are gone now . I’m one of the hated private school parents trying to find £1500 by January for one of my kids school fees - but I’m way angrier about Winter Fuel Payments than VAT on education . Labour have failed to read the room on this - they keep doing that and I’m personally wondering what on earth they are going to come up with next

*decision

It was 3 degrees here this morning , there will have been pensioners sitting in the cold

Yes sadly so and agree they would

It also exacerbates conditions and increases falls

Great - do you have figures that show the cross over between not getting pension credit but getting Attendance Allowance?

Why would we make it on age? Plenty of very rich 90 year olds and very poor 68 year olds?

DWP would be able to run a scan for AA/PC claimants.
Your response to my second suggestion would indicate you think it should be universal ??
Are you this belligerent in real life or just when it comes to WFP ??

That makes sense, but I think state pension has risen much faster than inflation. Also if we're talking 'in real terms' which I agree we should, the fall in fuel costs needs to be factored in. I haven't seen anyone actually spelling out why she's wrong.

It would not be simple to use tax band as a means test as WFA is paid to households rather than individuals. My parents live together and received £100 each. My single aunt received £200.

"Are you this belligerent in real life or just when it comes to WFP ??"

Everywhere. It's a life skill.

That’s not the issue.
Martin Lewis has never said it shouldn’t be means tested.
Very few people are against it being means tested.

The issue is that the threshold has been set too low.
A single householder on basic pension, even basic pension plus a very small private pension , will be spending over 25% of their income on heating this winter. Possibly more.

Women are those most likely to be in pension poverty.

As often is the case with politicians they use weasel words and sweeping statements as to what they think people want or beed to hear.

If the overall pension amount has increased, to more than 300, then the reply is just that - she could say ‘in terms of actual income, ineligible pensioners will lose 300 they previously received for wfa. But all pensioners will receive more than 300 from (date) as the basic pension is increasing. Thus no pensioners income will reduce’

Using terms like “worse off” being in cost of living etc which of course can negate any increase in income. This is a separate issue to me.

I also completely agree with PPs saying a fair way would be to stop it for 40% taxpayer pensioners. It doesn’t seem like many people disagree with means testing, it’s the application of this being at a fair level that’s the problem.

You only have to read on here to see the thousands of pounds doled out to individuals. And folk on far better incomes than pensioners. Many times more than the fuel allowance. Voted for Labour but not a mention of this before the election.

But that sounds far too high- someone could be sitting on a pretty huge amount of wealth, mortgage free but not fall into 40% tax band for their retirement income. Plenty will fall into that category. Do they need £300?

Martin Lewis is saying it is he? And Age UK

“We have to accept - you have to accept - there will be hundreds of thousands of the poorest pensioners under the £11,400 income you will not reach this year,” Lewis said passionately.

“You are taking money out of their hands. Do you accept the truth, the reality is that's what will practically happen. I'm saying it, Age UK are saying it, others are saying it.

What I do not understand is why they didnt sort out a 'support' system BEFORE they took away the WFA. All very well for them to allow claims retrospectively until next April or whenever, but the people who do not claim now/already are probably going to 'eat or heat' til they find out about the system or simply not claim at all!

That doesn't address the question though! Are they worse off this year? I think that matters! I normally like Martin Lewis but he's being just as 'weasel worded' as LN here.

It’s just weasel deflection from the reality though.

How does it help these people for Nandy to deflect?

‘2.5 million pensioners who badly need the money to stay warm this winter will not receive it and will be in serious trouble as a result.’ Age U.K.

It's not deflecting to explain they're no worse off, if that's true?
It's the crux of the issue.
Yes, millions of people are in fuel poverty every year. There are many reasons for this, and it affects poor pensioners more than younger people (although cold damp homes are pretty horrific for babies and young children's development too). LN isn't saying it's all fine. She's saying nobody is worse off than last year. I think that is an important part of the argument to consider, when we're in a situation where there are no ideal solutions.

Maybe not. But surely thus would at the least prevent lower income pensioners losing out. I would actually like all income from whatever source to be taxed fairly. I hope Labour will do something about that. I would also stop or change tax avoiding schemes such as salary sacrifice where you can artificially lower tax you pay by putting a load in your pension and avoid going into a higher tax band. I wonder how much revenue is lost through these schemes, that aren’t available to everyone to take advantage of.

I didn’t hear her interview however I am going to guess she was referring to the fact that State Pensions ( like ALL benefits) were increased in April and because of the Triple Lock ( next for the chop ??) a lot of people’s annual pension increased by a few hundred . Mine did but quite honestly it is just swallowed up when it equates to about £30 a month) .

Well don’t take away their payment then.

Recognise the issue, don’t make it worse.

I agree on all of that. And that the threshold would ideally be a bit higher. But there's a lot of heat in the papers on here, and very little light. Step 1 for me would be 'she said nobody is worse off, is that true?

Interesting

https://www.almondfinancial.co.uk/pension-breakeven-index-how-does-the-uk-state-pension-compare-to-the-rest-of-europe/

I like this idea. My mum is one of those who is just over pension credits (£110 pa) and so will be worse off.

If “worse off” purely means by a measure of actual income, she’s maybe correct. But the term worse off to me is a broader concept, and so the words used are important here.

I suspect the government wanted to remove the benefit completely, knew theyd be a backlash so kept it for the very poorest pensioners. It shows a lack of understanding about how many people arent in the very poorest group, but still rely on the money.

It also shows they lack of understanding about many pensions cant make adjustments - they cant increase their income, move house, increase heating efficency. Its not as if the can go for a run to keep warm.

I think they also misunderstood how working class people do have close intergenerational relationships, so may have problems themselves but dont think their grandmother is the problem. I see that more of a middle class issue - they are the ones without the lifestyle they expect and see their grandparents in large houses and good pensions, not the working class.

We can give examples of who doesnt need the money, but none of us are saying its the pensioners living only on the basic state pension. Its bonkers that the labour party didnt see this.