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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Scotland guidance on school uniform for schools

49 replies

ArabellaScott · 12/09/2024 16:23

https://www.gov.scot/publications/school-uniform-clothing-guidance-schools-education-authorities/pages/8/

'Sex

It is important for schools to recognise and understand that there may be issues related to clothing and uniform which have a greater impact on some pupils more than others, or in relation to particular activities. For example, young women and girls can often experience societal pressure to look or dress in a certain way. This can have an impact on their comfort and body image and may make them feel more self-conscious or anxious about attending school or participating in certain activities, such as PE. There may also be a perception that school uniform policies, and their implementation, can produce sexist double standards; for example, with girls and young women being held to stricter standards than boys and young men.[11] Research[12] also suggests that the cost of school uniform and clothing can be higher for girls and young women than it is for boys and young men.
Under the 2010 Act, schools must ensure that their uniform or clothing policies do not discriminate against pupils on the basis of their sex. Schools should design and implement gender neutral clothing and uniform policies that support participation and inclusion for all pupils. These policies should recognise and challenge the impact of harmful gender stereotypes, avoid gendered assumptions about the type of uniform that is preferred and promote flexibility and pupil choice.
Schools should avoid categorising items of clothing or uniform as suitable for a particular sex or gender and instead include a range of comfortable and practical, gender neutral options to support all pupils to participate fully in all subjects and activities. Schools should be mindful of language used when implementing uniform policy with individual students. For example, schools should avoid using language such as “modest” or “decent” as these terms are stigmatising and often only applied to girls and young woman. Schools should ensure that when supporting and encouraging pupils to observe their uniform or clothing policy, their approach promotes gender equality, does not respond differently to pupils because of their sex or gender and supports pupils’ freedom to express their gender identity.
Teachers and school staff should be supported to access appropriate training and resources to recognise and respond to gender-based issues and promote a culture of gender equality in their school. The Gender Based Violence Working Group has developed the Preventing and responding to gender based violence: a whole school framework. This resource will support those working with and in schools to develop and strengthen universal and targeted approaches to gender-based violence within the context of the Getting it right for every child (GIRFEC) approach.'

'Sexual Orientation and Gender Re-assignment

It is important that school uniform and clothing policies recognise and respond to the needs and identities of lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer/questioning and intersex plus (LGBTQI+) pupils. Schools should develop and implement flexible and inclusive policies which take a proactive approach to address stereotypes and stigma which can often lead to prejudice or bullying experienced by pupils who are LGBTQI+. Under the 2010 Act, schools must ensure that their uniform and clothing policies do not discriminate on the basis of sex, sexual orientation or gender re-assignment.

The Scottish Government supported development of Guidance on supporting transgender young people in Scottish schools. The guidance is underpinned by the duties placed on education providers by the 2010 Act and provides advice on the practical application of those duties in a school setting. The guidance includes advice on school uniform. While this is in the context of supporting transgender pupils in schools, the principle can also apply to all pupils. The guidance says:

Supporting Transgender Pupils in Schools: Guidance for Scottish Schools

…forcing transgender young people to wear clothes which do not match their gender identity can be distressing for them, and may constitute discrimination under the Equality Act 2010.

If your school has a uniform, the school uniform policy should include a range of options to accommodate the needs of girls and boys and these should also accommodate the needs of transgender young people through gender-neutral options; this can be helpful for many young people. This approach should allow all young people to wear the school uniform they feel most comfortable in.
Schools should not exclude transgender young people because of how they dress, unless it breaches health and safety regulations.

If your school doesn't have a school uniform, it should be clear that young people can wear what they want, including skirts, trousers, shorts, regardless of gender identity, as long as this complies with school guidelines.

This guidance also provides advice on clothing for transgender young people participating in PE and highlights some examples of good practice. This includes allowing transgender young people to wear sportswear which matches their expressed gender identity and considering alternative options for swimming. Again, while this advice is provided within the context of supporting transgender young people, taking a flexible and informed approach will support participation and engagement for all pupils.

In addition, teachers and school staff should be supported to access appropriate training and resources to support a whole school approach to implementation of ‘LGBT Inclusive Education.’ The Scottish Government has worked with partners to develop a national platform to support teachers and school staff across Scotland to tackle prejudice through education. These resources can be accessed here: LGBT Inclusive Education | National Platform.'

School uniform and clothing: Guidance for schools and education authorities

This guidance provides schools and education authorities with advice to support local decisions about the design and implementation of school uniform and clothing policies in Scotland.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/school-uniform-clothing-guidance-schools-education-authorities/pages/8

OP posts:
WallaceinAnderland · 12/09/2024 19:42

There is no 'girls' uniform.

But boys should be allowed to wear the 'girls' uniform if they are transgender.

🤔

GoldenGate · 12/09/2024 19:55

I thought it was policy if not law in Scotland for some time to have ungendered uniform ie one uniform with options for everyone. Doubt any state schools here have made girls wear skirts in the last 20 years or so. Sounds sensible but then any talk of boy/girl uniforms and identity become contradictory. Socially enforced rules like very short skirts or options used by girls not boys are more out the control of government or school policy.

Biscofffan · 12/09/2024 19:58

Recently retired teacher here. All of this makes my head explode. Whatever schools and teachers have to try to enforce re school uniform, they cannot win. And post lockdown this has got harder and more contested by parents and pupils, adding to the behavioural issues that schools are also trying to deal with. Reading this endless policy which attempts to cover all possible nonsensical objections that might come up is laughable and makes me think: Just let them wear whatever they like 🤷

LongtailedTitmouse · 12/09/2024 20:03

MelodyMalone · 12/09/2024 18:57

I'd be in favour of this, actually. Trousers or shorts. No hot pants though 😄

Yes, I would be happy with trousers for all too. My niece’s school had this and it was fine.

Biscofffan · 12/09/2024 20:11

Just to clarify, I have always been an advocate for an affordable school uniform that is comfy, practical and 'unisex', for all the obvious reasons. But nobody is ever satisfied, especially we now have so many special categories of people to cater for in addition to the average boy or girl.

LongtailedTitmouse · 12/09/2024 20:12

Kilts are very expensive and proper fitting ones don’t have much room for growth in either direction. I know some private schools where the girls have kilts and it always struck my as discriminatory how much more expensive they made they girls uniform than the boys. Also dry clean only.

In terms of no uniform, I know a high school that had this and the pupils were desperate for a uniform. It was more expensive and more hassle not to have one and they disliked the fact there was no sense of identity, especially if representing the school surrounded by other schools. It took years of campaigning but they now have one.

Toseland · 12/09/2024 20:20

If it's to do with children we need to know what the 'plus' is.

Toseland · 12/09/2024 20:20

If it's to do with children we need to know what the 'plus' is.

Toseland · 12/09/2024 20:29

Oh my Internet dropped out and now I've posted twice - sorry!

LongtailedTitmouse · 12/09/2024 20:30

So if you are T you need ‘girls’ and ‘boys’ uniforms to be able to choose the opposite, if you are NB you need them so you can choose neither, and if you are Q you need them so you can make a point of not wearing a uniform (smashing the normative)? And everyone else must wear these uniforms so you can be different from them.

Biscofffan · 12/09/2024 20:48

LongtailedTitmouse · 12/09/2024 20:30

So if you are T you need ‘girls’ and ‘boys’ uniforms to be able to choose the opposite, if you are NB you need them so you can choose neither, and if you are Q you need them so you can make a point of not wearing a uniform (smashing the normative)? And everyone else must wear these uniforms so you can be different from them.

Nailed it LTT.
I just wanted to get my pupils to be able to punctuate correctly, enjoy and respond thoughtfully to a bit of Shakespeare and to understand why 'would of' is incorrect.
All this is far more important though...

Grammarnut · 12/09/2024 22:39

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 12/09/2024 18:56

I'm not a fan of uniform full stop. But if we must have it, I'm beginning to think that the only way around all of this is to say everyone has to wear trousers (shorts an option in summer) and allow a variety of different cuts of trousers. Nobody thinks trousers are only for one particular sex, and there would be no 'short skirt' issue.

Which means taking choice away from girls because some boys want to wear skirts. That's discrimation on the basis of sex.

MelodyMalone · 13/09/2024 00:11

Grammarnut · 12/09/2024 22:39

Which means taking choice away from girls because some boys want to wear skirts. That's discrimation on the basis of sex.

Any school uniform (or any uniform at all, actually) takes choice away, though. They can't wear football shirts or party dresses or whatever they feel like wearing. Most uniforms worn by adults in jobs involve trousers, these days. I don't see many nurses or police officers in skirts anymore.

LongtailedTitmouse · 13/09/2024 08:05

Grammarnut · 12/09/2024 22:39

Which means taking choice away from girls because some boys want to wear skirts. That's discrimation on the basis of sex.

How much actual choice is involved in wearing those minuscule skirts? What do you think happens if a teenager turns up in a skirt just below the knee?

MistressIggi · 13/09/2024 08:11

Grammarnut · 12/09/2024 22:39

Which means taking choice away from girls because some boys want to wear skirts. That's discrimation on the basis of sex.

There's no problem with boys wearing skirts if they want to though.
Long as decent, same as for girls.

Datun · 13/09/2024 08:45

LongtailedTitmouse · 12/09/2024 20:30

So if you are T you need ‘girls’ and ‘boys’ uniforms to be able to choose the opposite, if you are NB you need them so you can choose neither, and if you are Q you need them so you can make a point of not wearing a uniform (smashing the normative)? And everyone else must wear these uniforms so you can be different from them.

Absolutely nailed it.

Ridiculously confused policy. We mustn't designate uniform into girls and boys because girls generally get discriminated against, but we're gonna have to, in case boys want to pretend to be girls and we have to give them a way to do it.

While I agree that trousers for everybody would solve the problem overnight, I also can't to help thinking it's still pandering to sexist stereotypes by designating a skirt a girl only choice.

For me, the best solution would be you can wear what you like, skirts or trousers, but it doesn't change anything about you.

And have a lesson on clothing. The sexism, the expectations, the history.

And explain that you're not pandering to it with the uniform and why.

CriticalCondition · 13/09/2024 08:51

The trouble is that 'decent' is (a) subjective (b) a loaded term in misogynistic society and (c) produces different results when applied to the different sexes. Isla Bryson's leggings would have been arguably 'decent' on a woman. When housing meat and two veg, not so much.

LongtailedTitmouse · 13/09/2024 08:53

I also can't to help thinking it's still pandering to sexist stereotypes by designating a skirt a girl only choice.

I used to think that; wear what you like, why does it matter? But skirts are girl’s clothing, for a whole host of historic and sexist reasons. Boys wearing them is not a neutral act.

MelodyMalone · 13/09/2024 08:54

LongtailedTitmouse · 13/09/2024 08:05

How much actual choice is involved in wearing those minuscule skirts? What do you think happens if a teenager turns up in a skirt just below the knee?

There's definitely peer pressure. The vast majority of girls at my daughter's school (her included, unfortunately) wore the ridiculously tiny skirts. A very few, mainly Muslim girls wore trousers. Nobody wore knee length skirts.

StainlessSteelMouse · 13/09/2024 11:32

If there's peer pressure on girls to wear ridiculously short skirts (and there is), surely that's a good reason not to allow boys to wear miniskirts with their bollocks hanging out.

But it's Scottish schools policy, so why would we expect it to be sensible...

Datun · 13/09/2024 12:14

LongtailedTitmouse · 13/09/2024 08:53

I also can't to help thinking it's still pandering to sexist stereotypes by designating a skirt a girl only choice.

I used to think that; wear what you like, why does it matter? But skirts are girl’s clothing, for a whole host of historic and sexist reasons. Boys wearing them is not a neutral act.

Agreed.

Which is why addressing the reasons it's not a neutral act would be a good idea, in my opinion.

But then, I've always thought that feminism as a general topic should be taught in schools anyway.

The policy goes out if its way to explain about modesty and decency and not discriminate, so it's wanting to inform, whilst then fucking it all up by agreeing skirts are girls clothes, but only when boys wear them!

I meant to add, so they want to explain about sexism and discrimination, but then fall short and actually uphold it.

So have a bloody lesson on it.

GoldenGate · 13/09/2024 18:29

LongtailedTitmouse · 13/09/2024 08:53

I also can't to help thinking it's still pandering to sexist stereotypes by designating a skirt a girl only choice.

I used to think that; wear what you like, why does it matter? But skirts are girl’s clothing, for a whole host of historic and sexist reasons. Boys wearing them is not a neutral act.

If skirts were accepted boys/mens clothing outwith school (which may happen over time, who knows) would it bother you then? Pushing boundaries in school only would be making a point like several hot weather protesters over the years.

LongtailedTitmouse · 13/09/2024 18:42

GoldenGate · 13/09/2024 18:29

If skirts were accepted boys/mens clothing outwith school (which may happen over time, who knows) would it bother you then? Pushing boundaries in school only would be making a point like several hot weather protesters over the years.

If….

Men and boys wear skirts now because they are women’s clothing and doing so either sexually arouses them (AGPs/consumers of sissy porn), makes others uncomfortable, or do so in order to lay false claim for womanhood.

MelodyMalone · 13/09/2024 19:25

Men can wear whatever the heck they like as far as I'm concerned. Skirts, makeup, whatever. Go for it. Just so long as they don't pretend doing so mysteriously makes them into women.

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