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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NCHI recorded against JKR (Northumbria Police)

61 replies

NitroNine · 22/08/2024 09:54

If Rowling’s lawyers are doing any additional work at this time, I assume it’s to establish how on earth a police officer decided that her Foolish Law Day TwiX Thread met the threshold for recording as a NCHI:
Under the Code of Practice on the Recording and Retention of Personal Data (‘the Code’), the personal data about the subject should only be recorded where the incident:
“presents a real risk of significant harm to individuals with a particular characteristic(s) and/or a real risk that a future criminal offence may be committed against individuals or groups with a particular characteristic(s)”.

How came I to know of this? IW mouthing off on TwiX. Including repeatedly tagging the lawyer named in Imane Khelif’s case. Because what court could fail to be impressed by this pseudo-Stasi name-taking; & what lawyer wouldn’t interrogate the surrounding circumstances of i. IW’s harassment campaign & ii. what the thread ACTUALLY SAID?

I don’t think IW took legal advice before posting those tweets. Rather, IW is buoyed by their little sliver of letter:
[NAME REDACTED] states that in determining that this matter was not a crime, the second test was whether it was a Non-Crime Hate Incident. This test is clearly set out the that a Non-Crime Hate Incident (NCHI) means an incident or alleged incident which involves or is alleged to involve an act by a person which is perceived by a person other than the subject to be motivated - wholly or partly - by hostility or prejudice towards persons with a particular characteristic.
[NAME REDACTED] confirms he was satisfied that this threshold was met and as such a NCHI was recorded and as such safeguarding measures were addressed with you and a harm reduction plan was recorded with the offers of safeguarding.
I note in your original submission you requested that this matter be passed to the CPS for consideration and also that further advice is sought. As detailed above, I am satisfied with the

It’s a deeply unfunny joke that Northumbria Police mention “harm reduction” & “safeguarding” in this particular context. I do hope what was offered was based on “stop harassing the woman & she might stop replying” but that seems too sensible.

NCHI recorded against JKR (Northumbria Police)
NCHI recorded against JKR (Northumbria Police)
NCHI recorded against JKR (Northumbria Police)
NCHI recorded against JKR (Northumbria Police)
OP posts:
RoyalCorgi · 22/08/2024 12:05

SerafinasGoose · 22/08/2024 11:39

It's outrageous that this dangerous assault on our legal justice system should ever have come into practice in the first place.

You cannot 'convict' someone who has never been found guilty of a crime via due legal process. With this hideous blacklist of 'wrong think', anyone can report anyone for some frivolous reason (calling a man a man). Names can be added without ever informing an individual that theirs has appeared on this undemocratic, draconian, non-legal, dictatorship-style shit list. It might only come to light when, for example, that individual applies for an overseas visa.

Sarah Phillimore only discovered she had been added because the person who reported her boasted about it on TwiX. I think she then applied under FoI and intended to use the courts, via Fair Cop, to challenge it. So far I'm unaware of any outcome to this.

JKR is a shrewd, intelligent woman who does seem to have a method behind what she does. She's certainly interacted with a highly reactive person whose responses to GC women are well documented in various formats. She's also been willing to put her head over the parapet before, namely to expose the ridiculousness of the new Scottish law earlier this spring.

If that's her intention, she's a trooper.

I'd also be interested to know if Sarah Phillimore's legal challenge was ever successful. Potential terrorism watch lists (confidential) are one thing, but you can't be having blacklists of people who happen to hold personal and political views that go against whatever happens to be today's zeitgeist. It sets a very dangerous precedent.

Sarah Phillimore had the NCHI against her removed:

https://thecritic.co.uk/post-hate-policing/

Post-hate policing | Sarah Phillimore | The Critic Magazine

For two years and one month, I was unlawfully recorded and retained on a police database by Wiltshire police as “a barrister posting hate”. If you want to see the true depths of my hate you can view…

https://thecritic.co.uk/post-hate-policing

StickItInTheFamilyAlbum · 22/08/2024 12:10

Helleofabore · 22/08/2024 12:01

Can we also point out that Willoughby has a long history of abuse directed towards JK Rowling?

And Willoughby is now assisted by the police in further controlling JK Rowling's language around discussing male abuse towards women.

I wonder if the police thought this through? How they are now fully supportive of an abuser continuing to abuse the abuser's victim? While that abuser claims special privileges including victimhood.

DARVO in action. Supported by the Northumbria Police.

Far too much of the policing, criminal justice and even family court systems seem to be designed this way.

As Dumbledore indicates, these are designed-in features, not bugs.

WickedSerious · 22/08/2024 12:16

It's been kept off the front pages by 'Python bit my goolies while I was on the bog'.

SerafinasGoose · 22/08/2024 12:17

Sarah Phillimore had the NCHI against her removed:

https://thecritic.co.uk/post-hate-policing/

Thank you for this, @RoyalCorgi. Brings a genuine smile to my face - but what a travesty and utter bloody liberty that such a 'victory' should have been made necessary in the first place.

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 22/08/2024 12:37

TRAs are claiming Emma Hilton had an NCHI against her.

x.com/smilerturner/status/1826503897583665543?s=46&t=AjtjSItRj-kgZwRzL-pdyQ

I wonder if she's aware of that?

StickItInTheFamilyAlbum · 22/08/2024 12:41

I'm beginning to wonder if women with any sort of profile are being edged into the position where they need to run a check (is this possible?) to see if they have a NCHI lodged against them if the position involves an eDBS or similar.

Datun · 22/08/2024 12:53

There are so very many tweets that could be lodged as an NCHI.

The police appear to be relying on the fact that only the truly motivated will report them.

Well women are going to get fucking motivated, if they, themselves, are being reported for stating the truth.

And I can't imagine a more stupid, time wasting, money sucking enterprise than everyone reporting everyone else and the police having to fucking deal with it.

It should bring the entire concept to a shuddering halt overnight.

But I bet there are many people who would rather be dealing with transgressions of this ridiculous law, than actually tackling proper crime.

it feels like an invention designed purely to stop them doing any real work.

And to be able to stick it to women, of course.

I hope JKR does put any game plan into operation. This entire farce obviously needs addressing. But fuck me, having to deal with the inane witterings of twats on Twitter must be a low point for her.

SinnerBoy · 22/08/2024 12:57

Dumbledoreslemonsherbets · Today 12:02

You're forgetting that woman hatred apparently is one of the requirements for a job in the police. Couzens, Carrick, misogyny in the police force is a feature not a bug.

Ah yes, how foolish of me.

RoyalCorgi · 22/08/2024 13:25

Well women are going to get fucking motivated, if they, themselves, are being reported for stating the truth.

The one catch in this is that sex is not a protected characteristic under hate crime legislation. So calling someone, say, an "ugly fat bitch" wouldn't be an NCHI. Neither is age a protected characteristic so you couldn't even get them on "ugly old bitch". We'd have to confine our complaints to insults relating to sexuality (and I'm sure IW has said some pretty nasty things about lesbians) or possibly disability.

What a waste of everyone's time, though. The very concept of an NCHI is nuts in the first place.

ArabellaScott · 22/08/2024 13:26

RoyalCorgi · 22/08/2024 13:25

Well women are going to get fucking motivated, if they, themselves, are being reported for stating the truth.

The one catch in this is that sex is not a protected characteristic under hate crime legislation. So calling someone, say, an "ugly fat bitch" wouldn't be an NCHI. Neither is age a protected characteristic so you couldn't even get them on "ugly old bitch". We'd have to confine our complaints to insults relating to sexuality (and I'm sure IW has said some pretty nasty things about lesbians) or possibly disability.

What a waste of everyone's time, though. The very concept of an NCHI is nuts in the first place.

Age is protected in Scotland under the HCA.

Garlicfest · 22/08/2024 13:40

Definition of a Non-Crime Hate Incident
11. A non-crime hate incident (NCHI) means an incident or alleged incident which involves or is alleged to involve an act by a person (‘the subject’) which is perceived by a person other than the subject to be motivated - wholly or partly - by hostility or prejudice towards persons with a particular characteristic.

Amazing. An allegation, based on a perception, is sufficient for the incident to be recorded on the police database.

Caveat: I can see how this came into being. You could report some angry person's racist or fundamentalist diatribes, and this could be recorded as an early warning of potential terrorist action. It gives police a chance to nip things in the bud, and forms part of a pattern of evidence if activity escalates. This is exactly what we want the police to do wrt violent misogynists.

20. The perception of hostility or prejudice by a complainant or any other person alone is not enough, in and of itself, to warrant an NCHI record being made.

Additional Threshold Test for the Recording of Personal Data
21. There are two subsets of NCHI record: those that include personal data of the subject, and those that do not (see paragraph 25). Personal data may only be included in an NCHI record if the event presents a real risk of significant harm to individuals or groups with a particular characteristic(s) and/or a real risk that a future criminal offence may be committed against individuals or groups with a particular characteristic(s).

23. If an incident does not pass this threshold test, but all the other criteria required to record an NCHI are met, an NCHI without personal data may be recorded instead. In these instances, the recording authority should ensure that any personal data that may previously have been recorded on policing systems in relation to the initial incident report is removed.

The Two Subsets of NCHI Records
25. There are two possible subsets of NCHI records:
1. NCHI records that only include non-personal data.
This record may include:

  • locational data of the incident[footnote 14]; and/or
  • a general description or overview of the circumstances surrounding the incident which contains no data that could identify any individual(s).
In many cases, this information may be all that is required in order to identify patterns of behaviour, identify incident hot spots, or monitor community tensions.

The most over-zealous rainbow constable could hardly imagine that JKR's plotting a terrorist attack on Willoughby, so presumably his report's been added to a long list of NCHI records mentioning a Scots author on TwitX 🙄

They're all just wasting police time! There's no threat to JKR, but similar reports could cause problems for lesser mortals with nervous employers, or in need of a DBS certificate for example. Basically, the police should be a lot more circumspect about their definitions of 'transphobia'.

Additionally, it's time for sex to be added to the list of protected characteristics - but cue thousands of similarly spurious reports of 'misandry'. The NCHI process isn't useless, but much better training is clearly needed.

Non-Crime Hate Incidents: Code of Practice on the Recording and Retention of Personal Data (accessible)

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/non-crime-hate-incidents-code-of-practice/non-crime-hate-incidents-code-of-practice-on-the-recording-and-retention-of-personal-data-accessible#fn:14

StickItInTheFamilyAlbum · 22/08/2024 13:46

Amazing. An allegation, based on a perception, is sufficient for the incident to be recorded on the police database.

Somewhere on FWR there are posts about the people who foresaw this as the unintended yet logical consequence of McPherson. Similarly to the same way that people anticipated the consequences of GRA 2004.

Mmmnotsure · 22/08/2024 13:50

WickedSerious · 22/08/2024 12:16

It's been kept off the front pages by 'Python bit my goolies while I was on the bog'.

The Daily Star. Hexameter, starting in trochees and ending in iambs.
Pure poetry.

ArabellaScott · 22/08/2024 14:31

Scotland has the Hate Crime Act, remember. It's a little different up here.

No evidence required, you can report on behalf of someone else, you don't need to be the supposed victim. And that could be outwith Scotland.

You can accuse anyone of anything, basically, and it may be recorded by the Polis.

Datun · 22/08/2024 14:37

RoyalCorgi · 22/08/2024 13:25

Well women are going to get fucking motivated, if they, themselves, are being reported for stating the truth.

The one catch in this is that sex is not a protected characteristic under hate crime legislation. So calling someone, say, an "ugly fat bitch" wouldn't be an NCHI. Neither is age a protected characteristic so you couldn't even get them on "ugly old bitch". We'd have to confine our complaints to insults relating to sexuality (and I'm sure IW has said some pretty nasty things about lesbians) or possibly disability.

What a waste of everyone's time, though. The very concept of an NCHI is nuts in the first place.

But malicious communications is still a crime isn't it?

But yes, true, they kept sex out of it. Naturally.

Willoughlby called Helen Joyce a religious biddy who should rot from the inside. Religion must be protected.

Plus, I thought the police said they had to investigate each and every report. Whether they thought it had merit or not.

The entire absurd concept is ripe for exploitation.

BezMills · 22/08/2024 14:37

ArabellaScott · 22/08/2024 14:31

Scotland has the Hate Crime Act, remember. It's a little different up here.

No evidence required, you can report on behalf of someone else, you don't need to be the supposed victim. And that could be outwith Scotland.

You can accuse anyone of anything, basically, and it may be recorded by the Polis.

To which the only reasonable response is

Oooooooh

NCHI recorded against JKR (Northumbria Police)
Igmum · 22/08/2024 14:40

Oh FFS Northumbria Police, what on earth is wrong with you?

RoyalCorgi · 22/08/2024 15:19

But malicious communications is still a crime isn't it?

Yes, of course. I guess JKR could report IW for malicious communications, which would be entertaining for all of us, though she might regard it as a waste of her time.

But perhaps we should all start reporting people who post insults on Twitter for malicious comms. Give as good as we get.

Apollo441 · 22/08/2024 15:48

RoyalCorgi · 22/08/2024 15:19

But malicious communications is still a crime isn't it?

Yes, of course. I guess JKR could report IW for malicious communications, which would be entertaining for all of us, though she might regard it as a waste of her time.

But perhaps we should all start reporting people who post insults on Twitter for malicious comms. Give as good as we get.

I think that is the only way to bring an end to this nonsense. Seems that complaints are just ignored.

CobwebCorner · 22/08/2024 15:54

ArabellaScott · 22/08/2024 14:31

Scotland has the Hate Crime Act, remember. It's a little different up here.

No evidence required, you can report on behalf of someone else, you don't need to be the supposed victim. And that could be outwith Scotland.

You can accuse anyone of anything, basically, and it may be recorded by the Polis.

What a time to be alive!

Rymeswithpunt · 22/08/2024 16:05

I thought non crime records were deemed illegal by the courts when Harry the owl took the police to court over them?

Did I get that wrong or are the police just ignoring the law now if they feel its hurting mens rights ideologically wrong?

ArabellaScott · 22/08/2024 18:34

Rymeswithpunt · 22/08/2024 16:05

I thought non crime records were deemed illegal by the courts when Harry the owl took the police to court over them?

Did I get that wrong or are the police just ignoring the law now if they feel its hurting mens rights ideologically wrong?

They sort of tightened up the guidelines so its improved, but no, they are still there.

'These incidents should not be recorded where they are trivial, irrational, or if there is no basis to conclude that an incident was motivated by hostility.

https://www.college.police.uk/article/new-code-and-guidance-non-crime-hate-incidents

New Code and guidance for non-crime hate incidents | College of Policing

Updates support officers and staff responding to reports of non-crime hate incidents

https://www.college.police.uk/article/new-code-and-guidance-non-crime-hate-incidents

ArabellaScott · 22/08/2024 18:34

As I understood it, the judgement on whether something is 'trivial' is up to the individual police officer.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/08/2024 18:40

IIRC a few women have been told that they had to be arrested and interviewed in order for them to be able to record the incident as a "hate incident", following the Miller appeal judgment so it seems some police officers don't really understand the judgment or why it was made.

ArabellaScott · 22/08/2024 18:41

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/08/2024 18:40

IIRC a few women have been told that they had to be arrested and interviewed in order for them to be able to record the incident as a "hate incident", following the Miller appeal judgment so it seems some police officers don't really understand the judgment or why it was made.

Sounds about right.

Make shit law, fail to train police, scatter around and use at will whenever there's an inconvenient woman you want to punish.