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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Article: 'Women can have short hair too - Pseudo-progressives are resurrecting gender stereotypes'

52 replies

UtopiaPlanitia · 23/06/2024 03:22

Another excellent article by Victoria Smith which my Gen X self really enjoyed reading.

https://thecritic.co.uk/women-can-have-short-hair-too/

'If you are a Gen Xer like me — that is, someone who grew up when genuinely androgynous women such as Grace Jones and Annie Lennox were at the height of their fame — this seems especially odd. It is as though something very obvious about what it means to reject femininity has been lost in translation. The degree of misunderstanding might be summed up by a bizarre meme featuring Jones and Lennox, which features the caption “I don’t really understand how people who were young in the 80s act so confused about different gender identities and expressions when the celebrities of their time looked like this”. The trouble is, we weren’t confused at all.

We knew that Grace Jones’ style didn’t make her less female; it showed there were other ways in which to be female. More space was being created for female self-expression. If someone said of Jones “you can’t tell if that’s a man or a woman”, you knew they were lying. You also knew that the comment was intended to reinforce rather than shatter norms. Now, pretending not to be able to tell is treated as laudable.

There is a part of me that finds the seriousness with which some young activists now take trivial gender markers quite funny. It reminds me of the Onion article “Marilyn Manson Now Going Door-To-Door Trying To Shock People”. I almost want to tell the girl in the TikTok video “hang on — you look like that and yet … you’re not a boy? Consider my tiny, Karen-y mind blown!” Yet overall, it’s not that amusing. I can’t help feeling something has gone very badly wrong when the space for free expression for young women in particular has become so narrow that looking totally unremarkable counts as earth-shattering. It is as though the moment one does not conform to the strictest of feminine standards some kind of declaration must be made. Even if one does not go so far as renouncing womanhood entirely, one must at least make it known that one knows this is a little bit on the edge. '

Women can have short hair, too | Victoria Smith | The Critic Magazine

Young children, it is often claimed by progressive types, are far more open-minded than adults when it comes to questions of sex and gender. You don’t hear the average five-year-old whining about sex…

https://thecritic.co.uk/women-can-have-short-hair-too/

OP posts:
CheeseSandwichRiskAssessment · 23/06/2024 21:06

Rubidium · 23/06/2024 19:15

Love these! The third picture looks Thin White Duke inspired. Gender bending used to be a bit of rebellious fun.

All this nonsense reminds me of Rolling Stone magazine saying Alice Cooper was a hypocrite to defend women's right regarding this issue because he was bi and wore eyeliner. Just what is the connection please???

IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle · 23/06/2024 22:18

ThreeWordHarpy · 23/06/2024 20:52

My hair length as an adult has varied from chin length to collar bone. But over the last five years I’ve grown it as long as I can and it’s now down my back and the longest I’ve had it since I was six! Not from any femininity reason but because I was brought up that very long hair was for girls and adult women don’t have the time to be dealing with long hair. And as a menopausal woman it’s a bit of a mini rebellion to my upbringing to have long hair at my age. Plus actually I do find it easier to shove into a messy bun than style it.

Mine has gone from waist length to shoulder to Louise Brooks bobs and back to long enough to put up, then back to Bobs but is currently just below shoulder length because I refuse to cut it short at 65.

sashh · 24/06/2024 04:40

My hair is quite long at the moment. It's up in a bun and will stay there while the hot weather is with us.

I tend to grow it until it is long enough to donate then have it chopped.

In the 80s I had from shoulder length to short and I was once misgendered. Which I thought was funny as I have huge norks.

LunaNorth · 24/06/2024 07:57

Brilliant article. It’s made me really chuffed to have my short hair!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/06/2024 08:03

All this nonsense reminds me of Rolling Stone magazine saying Alice Cooper was a hypocrite to defend women's right regarding this issue because he was bi and wore eyeliner.

I find it impossible to take this level of idiocy seriously.

goldfinch73514 · 24/06/2024 10:58

Right, I'm off to get my hair cut. Asymmetric - so crew cut on one side, and long on the other. That will blow their freaking minds.

HoneyButterPopcorn · 24/06/2024 10:59

Phil Oakey!

NitroNine · 24/06/2024 11:04

goldfinch73514 · 24/06/2024 10:58

Right, I'm off to get my hair cut. Asymmetric - so crew cut on one side, and long on the other. That will blow their freaking minds.

@goldfinch73514 be prepared for it to be assumed this is your way of coming out as non-binary/gender-fluid 😉

Abra1t · 24/06/2024 11:20

Kucinghitam · 23/06/2024 12:35

I've had my hair all different lengths, from a short pixie cut (teens) to almost long enough to sit on (late 20s). Most frequently it's been a chin-to-shoulder length bob. My school photos from the 80s and 90s showed a similar range of hair styles, most common being the aforementioned bob.

I find it rather depressing that in DCs' school all their girl friends all have long, usually straightened, hair - and the associated full face of make-up and rolled-up skirts. The only female pupils who have a non-girly-standard hairstyle are the persons-of-gender: the ones who identify as blokes have short "boy" hair, the ones who identify as NB have a range of shortish styles.

Exactly! Even Princess Diana had short hair. And Selina Scott, Jill Dando, Sophie (now Wessex).

goldfinch73514 · 24/06/2024 11:47

NitroNine · 24/06/2024 11:04

@goldfinch73514 be prepared for it to be assumed this is your way of coming out as non-binary/gender-fluid 😉

Well, DC calls me his mommy, so I hope from that they continue to call me "DC's mommy"

But what do you call a non-binary mother? "DC's parent" sounds completely soulless.

1stWorldProblems · 24/06/2024 14:14

I've had a pixie cut since I was 18 - following 2 years of a terrifying mullet! Short hair just is part of being me. I did get once called young man (about 1990) but I was wearing a vv baggy band t-shirt and cut tracksuit bums. I was not offended in the slightest.

Now... DD1 is almost 18 and thoroughly uninterested in the gender alphabet tedium. She's told me a couple of times that she'd quite like to try short hair but isn't going to bother til she leaves 6th Form as she doesn't want to have people make assumptions about her gender / sexuality. Because then she'd have actively voice that it's a load of stereotypical bol###s and fall out with some her friends - several of whom claim to be NB but haven't done anything about it - they're just shy teens who'd have been goths in the 80's.

It's so sad that we're living with stereotypes that went out of fashion in about 1918!

UtopiaPlanitia · 24/06/2024 14:24

I’ve throughly enjoyed reading everyone’s responses to the article - your responses demonstrate how odd the current stereotypes are to women who grew up in different times.

It’s like how the 'pink is girls, blue is for boys' stereotype is undermined by the fact that 100 years ago the colours were reversed. Taking these culture and time-bound sexist stereotypes seriously can be damaging to people, to women and girls specifically.

OP posts:
DeanElderberry · 24/06/2024 14:25

The only time in more than 40 short-haired years that I can remember a query was in mid-November 1987 (I was standing in a queue at the Mansion House in Dublin to sign the book of condolence after the Enniskillen bombing) when a small boy asked his embarrassed father whether I was a man or a lady. It was a dark evening and my donkey jacket and reflecting Sam Browne belt might have confused him - I'm also too nork-ridden to be readily mistaken for one of the opposite. I'd be an oddly short man, though average for a woman.

LittleLegsKeepGoing · 24/06/2024 16:33

My eldest (17) has very short hair - she has it done at the barber's because it's basically a 'boy' cut and refuses to pay hairdresser prices for that.

The amount of times she's been assumed to be a transboy, non-binary etc even when wearing very feminine clothes is to my mind evidence the world is bonkers. Apparently short hair + plus young woman = not a woman. Bonkers!

I'm relieved that my daughter has the confidence to make choices that work for her, not based on some ridiculous notion of stereotypes. Sadly, that really isn't the case for most of her peers. They may as well be in school uniform for the stereotypical way they style their hair and clothes - like a little bunch of clones.

YoucancallmeAI · 24/06/2024 16:51

My mum is 90. The last time she had short hair she was about 10 years old. Growing up all my friends mums had short hair. At school girls had long or short hair and it was just "hair". I'm so glad I'm not growing up now.

BreatheAndFocus · 24/06/2024 17:30

Toyah had very short hair too; I think Madonna went short, as did Linda Evangelista. Nobody thought they were men 🙄 Nobody thought they were trans.

Too many young people have taken on board these conservative, regressive stereotypes. It’s very depressing.

sashh · 25/06/2024 06:23

I vote for forcing teenagers to watch the House of Elliot.

Doingmybest12 · 25/06/2024 07:46

The pressure to look a certain way was as strong back then but thankfully no social media. I think too many things are being confused here. Sad that woman still criticise woman for not presenting themselves as they should. In the 20s when woman cut their hair it was outrageous,yes they were seen as trying to be male. Then grown woman could not have long hair to be taken seriously for a long time. Men could not have long hair in the 60s without comment about sexuality, etc. Now we have products, more gadgets, warm homes, youth obsession and change of fashion. Rose coloured specs and all that.

Grammarnut · 25/06/2024 09:06

DeanElderberry · 23/06/2024 08:21

I also find it annoying that the youngsters really do treat older woman as invisible. We almost all have short hair (always did, it was signal of adulthood).

I find this inconceivable, and I once tried to explain that long hair does not = female, to very blank looks. I am of the generation above you, I think. A Boomer. Little girls of my generation had short hair - it was odd to see a ponytail etc - and so did most women. When I grew up the style had changed for women - late 60s and 70s - and hair was very long. I could sit on mine - it took ages to dry in an era when portable hair dryers did not exist! Young men also had long hair at this point, some well below shoulder length. No-one seems to believe this now.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 25/06/2024 09:28

Young men also had long hair at this point, some well below shoulder length. No-one seems to believe this now

One bloke at uni (early 70s) that I recall had hair to his waist. Mostly the men had either shoulder length hair or the haircut usually thought of as male. Thinking back to my friends, some had longish hair, some had chin length and a couple had short.

I could sit on mine - it took ages to dry in an era when portable hair dryers did not exist!

One of the reasons I had mine cut short, it was a complete faff to dry. I only grew my long hair because I was stupid enough to believe the sixth form queen bee that 'you'll really be out of place at uni with short hair.'

lcakethereforeIam · 25/06/2024 09:49

She's written another cracking article

https://thecritic.co.uk/the-rise-of-academentia/

Anyone can make a mess. Anyone can churn out novel statements if evidence, logic and material reality have become an irrelevance. Anyone can shock if human suffering — and particularly compassion for children — are just embarrassing normie concerns.

The rise of academentia | Victoria Smith | The Critic Magazine

In late 2000, I was visiting a friend who was studying film. One of her tutors was presenting a work “on queer love” and my friend invited me to come along. She felt that as someone taking an arts PhD…

https://thecritic.co.uk/the-rise-of-academentia

ThreeWordHarpy · 25/06/2024 10:32

Grammarnut · 25/06/2024 09:06

I find this inconceivable, and I once tried to explain that long hair does not = female, to very blank looks. I am of the generation above you, I think. A Boomer. Little girls of my generation had short hair - it was odd to see a ponytail etc - and so did most women. When I grew up the style had changed for women - late 60s and 70s - and hair was very long. I could sit on mine - it took ages to dry in an era when portable hair dryers did not exist! Young men also had long hair at this point, some well below shoulder length. No-one seems to believe this now.

Edited

i was a teenager in the eighties and many of the posters on my wall reflected popular culture with gender non-conforming hair, make up and clothes. I distinctly remember a conversation about them with my lovely dad (born 1930s) who was of the firm opinion that it was the natural order of things for men to have a short back and sides haircut and not smell of anything artificial other than soap. Being a relatively sensible teenager I put it down to dad being ancient and told him it was different nowadays. Saved the eye rolls until he’d left the room.

i had a huge crush on a chap with long hair and who splashed on Kouros aftershave at the time too. Grin

FranticFrankie · 25/06/2024 10:47

DS and many of his (male) mates had long hair. The girls often complimented him on his- probably the ringlets 😀
Grandma didn’t approve ’too long for a lad’
Oh how her mind would be well and truly blown now 😄

Waitingfordoggo · 25/06/2024 10:59

The degree of misunderstanding might be summed up by a bizarre meme featuring Jones and Lennox, which features the caption “I don’t really understand how people who were young in the 80s act so confused about different gender identities and expressions when the celebrities of their time looked like this”.

I have seen that meme and I had exactly the same thought about it. We weren’t and aren’t confused! We had role models who wore what the fuck they wanted (but knew what sex they were), and we admired them for it. Jones, Lennox et al did way more to break down gender stereotypes than any blue-haired non-binary has done.

It’s infuriating that so many of the youth seem to think we’re stupid and too old to understand that the world has changed.

Yes of course the world has changed- we see it and we understand it. We were making strides in tackling gender stereotypes only for it all to be undone now and all of us put back in our boxes with labels on.

I’d love to wear my hair short- would be cooler in this hot weather for a start. But like PP, I have problematic hair and fear it would rebel. I can’t be arsed with styling and can’t afford regular trims so I just scrape it back in a low bunch every day.

UtopiaPlanitia · 25/06/2024 14:06

Doggo, I’m the same - I wear my hair long because having weight and length keeps it more manageable; with short hair I look like I’ve been dragged through a hedge backwards no matter how I try to keep it tidy. It didn’t stop me having short hair at multiple points in my life but eventually I had to admit to myself that long hair is easier and a bit tidier for me.

I’ve had it waist length in the recent past because of benign neglect but that was eventually too much effort on wash days so nowadays I wear it just below shoulder length which is long enough to put in buns and ponytails and that’s how I wear it 90% of the time. I couldn’t cope with it as long as the local teenage girls wear their hair - the majority wear it very long, blonde and completely loose even at school; I couldn’t cope with it getting in my way if I wore my hair loose all the time.

I do pine sometimes when I see shorter-haired women or when the weather is very hot but I remind myself of the faff it is trying to style my hair when it’s short. Plus, I remind myself that there’s nothing wrong with women of any age having their hair short or long or any bloody way they want.

OP posts: