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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
Catsmere · 24/07/2024 23:26

ArabellaScott · 02/06/2024 15:03

'Genital contact isn't real sex' - that's a phrase that's I'm still walking around, marvelling at, and wondering when it will sink in among the wider public that the professional arts world in Scotland has completely jumped the fucking shark.

How convenient that line would be for rapists.

ArabellaScott · 25/07/2024 08:12

She thinks it's protected under the EA, surely that can only relate to the 'religion/belief' characteristic? We are inching closer to a belief in gender identity being Grainger tested - it has to happen eventually. Be interesting when it does!

OP posts:
Grammarnut · 25/07/2024 10:16

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/07/2024 23:03

Does this mean a belief in gender identity is being posited as WORIADS?

Could be, I took it to mean that what she thought of as supporting trans people in her workplace was the protected act.

Now I understand (many thanks @lcakethereforeIam ) I think she believes that her support of trans people is the protected characteristic.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/07/2024 12:28

She thinks it's protected under the EA, surely that can only relate to the 'religion/belief' characteristic? We are inching closer to a belief in gender identity being Grainger tested - it has to happen eventually. Be interesting when it does!

I think supporting a protected characteristic can be a protected act as well and discrimination against someone for doing that is under the protected category in question. I don't think she's necessarily relying on Religion or Belief, but she could be. I think this is interesting because it's maybe going to hinge on "manifestation" rather than the act itself.

JF: You resigned on 7, confirmed this on 8th, and this was done before you had sent he investigation report
AIW: yes
JF: Why didn't you wait
AIW: Felt like it was predecided

JF: What are the options for hearing
AIW: There are options- training would probably be the most appropriate. Feels it had been decided- I am being disciplined for supporting trans colleagues

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/07/2024 16:19

She's claiming victimisation based on them (ACE) having an agenda that didn't consider that she was supporting trans colleagues.

ArabellaScott · 25/07/2024 18:33

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/07/2024 12:28

She thinks it's protected under the EA, surely that can only relate to the 'religion/belief' characteristic? We are inching closer to a belief in gender identity being Grainger tested - it has to happen eventually. Be interesting when it does!

I think supporting a protected characteristic can be a protected act as well and discrimination against someone for doing that is under the protected category in question. I don't think she's necessarily relying on Religion or Belief, but she could be. I think this is interesting because it's maybe going to hinge on "manifestation" rather than the act itself.

JF: You resigned on 7, confirmed this on 8th, and this was done before you had sent he investigation report
AIW: yes
JF: Why didn't you wait
AIW: Felt like it was predecided

JF: What are the options for hearing
AIW: There are options- training would probably be the most appropriate. Feels it had been decided- I am being disciplined for supporting trans colleagues

'Action against discrimination
You can do something voluntarily to help people with a protected characteristic. This is called ‘positive action’.
Taking positive action is legal if people with a protected characteristic:

  • are at a disadvantage
  • have particular needs
  • are under-represented in an activity or type of work'

https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights

In that sense? She's claiming she was taking 'positive action'?

Discrimination: your rights

It is against the law to discriminate against anyone because of their sex, religion, disability or certain other personal characteristics ('protected characteristics')

https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/07/2024 18:42

I think she's maybe claiming that she was a witness to discrimination against trans people, and she's been victimised because of it.

www.acas.org.uk/witnessing-discrimination

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/07/2024 18:45

www.acas.org.uk/discrimination-and-the-law/victimisation

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/07/2024 18:49

From the link

The law says victimisation means 'suffering a detriment' because you've done or intend to do a 'protected act'.
A 'protected act' means taking action related to discrimination law. This includes:
• making a complaint of discrimination or harassment
• supporting someone else's complaint
• gathering information that might lead to a complaint
• acting as a witness in a complaint
• saying something or giving evidence that does not support someone else's complaint
The law also protects a person from victimisation when someone else thinks the person has done or intends to do any of the things above.
'Detriment' means someone experiences one or both of the following:
• being treated worse than before
• having their situation made worse

Acting in good faith
The law only protects someone from victimisation if they've done something 'in good faith'. This means not acting maliciously.
Someone is not protected from victimisation if they:
• deliberately give false evidence
• deliberately make a false allegation of discrimination or harassment

Example of victimisation
Luca was a witness at an employment tribunal, supporting a colleague who made a claim of sex discrimination.
Luca applies for a promotion and does not get it. A member of the selection panel says Luca is a troublemaker who supported a discrimination claim against the company.
If this is the reason for the panel's decision, Luca is being victimised.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/07/2024 18:52

So ACE are saying she was disciplined due to the wording of her comment on the petition.

The claimant says that she feels that there was an agenda and she wasn't treated fairly, and her own grievance which she raised as a result of the disciplinary should have been dealt with first.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/07/2024 18:53

She resigned (although it seems she got a job offer) and so is claiming constructive dismissal.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/07/2024 19:14

So this has ended and judgment will follow. It seems to mostly centre on HR dignity at work and disciplinary process but the claimant and her barrister are querying why she was singled out. They also are challenging why "gender critical comments" at the drop in session weren't also investigated as some of the TRA staff complained about this (when do they not though).

From the claimant's barrister's summing up:

AA Those are my subs.
J Is it the C's case that if we find Victimisation there is a breach of the implied terms.
AA yes
J When you say action politically motivated - do you mean action against employees who see GC views as transphobic.

AA About employees who felt they faced transphobic and anti-trans behaviour at the drop-in. All correspondents aligned with that position. The political judgement was to totally ignore the concerns of the transphobic caucus - they weren't investigated at all

J confusion re terminology. Do you mean the views of the community who were saying they were facing transphobic behaviour were ignored.

AA yes. The Rs went looking for a witch and found 3, but they looked at 141 which was political with a small 'p'.

J If politically motivated against only those people who supported the petition.

AA Who knows what R intended. Found 3 in support, could have found 10.

J Yes, there were 141 signatories, 41 comments, only taken action against 3.
AA You don't look through 141 comments if you are not looking for a witch.
J JF?
JF Political action of R in favour of GC is mirror image of Fahmy. My client is probably thinking they can't win.

AA Can I make one point, out of order?
J Not if it's out of order [laughs] but...
AA R should have investigated both sides, GC and not. Why didn't they.
J Looking forward. Meeting on 29th August. 16th of August for any further subs. List remedy hearing if needed: 23 or 25 Oct

I'll be very interested to see what happens.

lcakethereforeIam · 29/07/2024 10:46

I noticed this letter in the Observer

The arts are still captured - Denise Fahmy
Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/07/2024 11:38

Interesting.

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