"What we’re seeing is an incredible emergence of a for-profit industry associated with menopause"

[GoodOldEmmaNess]

Not sure why we need researchers to tell us this, since it should be flaming obvious to anyone how the menopause has been pushed and pushed to us all over the last few years as some sort of glitch in femaleness that makes us ALL go faulty in middle age.

It is so flaming regressive. Some women are ill as a result of menopause, and need proper medical help and support, but the menopause itself is not an illness.

Until just a few years ago, we fought against the idea that 'women of a certain age' were defined by their transition to a post-reproductive phase in their life. That was part of feminism. Now we are being sold a false narrative that seems to regard pathologising the menopause as a form of empowerment.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/mar/05/companies-portray-menopause-as-medical-problem-and-push-women-towards-ineffective-treatments-papers-find

Commercialism is not wholly bad, obviously. But there are also obvious risks.

The wonderful thing about the NHS, when it works as it should, is that it is based on evidence that is not informed by commercial interests.

If you are experiencing this there is a great Psychotherapist on Instagram called Kate Codrington - she gives away a lot of stuff but is really experienced in this. It’s an area that really interests me too.

Experiencing what?

There are certainly various pluses and minuses to an NHS approach. I'm curious how we get to the best possible care, and the most reliable evidence.

I'm sorry you had such a hard time, and I'm glad the HRT helped.

Anyone can read the Lancet article for free, you have to register with an email address.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(23)02799-X/fulltext

A huge number of conditions can be described like that, with wildly conflicting treatments and opinions from GPs and medical experts.

I have no problem with awareness raising in the NHS and am heartened to hear @RunningAllDay says there’s now significant training for GPS on women’s biology. I hope that’s new and means we won’t see as much dismissiveness from newer GPs as has previously seemed the norm. I’d also like to see menopause given a bit of space in PSHE - not a huge amount, just enough that girls and boys, once they become women and men, have an inkling what’s going on when they meet issues arising from it. Not sure if that happens now.

My issue is with the way awareness raising for society in general seems to have an overarching message of women are debilitated by menopause, rather than - Here’s what happens to women during menopause, it’s got these benefits and there can be these problems.

I think it’s especially problematic for women in the workplace and in terms of priming women to feel, yet again, like they’re a burden and need fixing more generally.

Again, support for those who need it is essential, what I object to is women being painted as broken by default and I think commercial pressures by manufacturers and services really do this.

We don’t see this so much with issues men face. Even when there have been pushes to, for instance, tackle male suicide we haven’t see support groups set up in the work place where there is a threat of the messaging painting all men of a certain age as emotionally unstable. We haven’t seen adverts for shampoo that will make them feel like life’s worth living after all (that glibness is because that’s the reality of ads for women, not because I think male suicide isn’t serious). What we get is ads suggesting women approach strange men at the train station.

Why is it that when there is awareness raising for issues women face, what we get is potentially problematic for women as a class?

I really think there is a debate to be had. Of COURSE women should get the drugs and help they need. But also of course we need to be careful not to allow a narrative of women's fragility to become prevalent again. We don't want employees to hesitate about promoting women in their 40s And we must be careful not to allow a situation where we are sold things to "cure" women of physical deficiencies. Look at the marketing of panty liners, hair removal methods, special soap to wash ulnas and vaginas. Marketing has always specialised in telling women they are smelly, hairy and leaky. So absolutely HRT and other therapies to treat the effects of the menopause. But not hair shampoo and skin care. Or in one case I saw-saucepans......I kid you not.

"The paper argues that menopausal hormone therapy (MHT) should be available for those who need it, but the evidence showed it was only effective for hot flashes and night sweats, not other symptoms."

I had neither of those symptoms - what I had was debilitating fatigue and joint pain that left me feeling like I'd been hit by a bus when I woke up every morning. It came on over the course of about 3 months. Within another 3 months I was on HRT and my symptoms entirely gone.

I'm sure it is not for everyone, but I've heard only positive experiences from my peers (women in our 40s) who are just starting to go on HRT.

If you substitute menopause for erectile disfunction

But thats the point the paper makes - menopause itself isn't a dysfunction. Symptoms may well be, but the process and changes are a normal part of women's lives.

Full disclosure - I'm on HRT

I am actually thinking of coming off it as I've recently upped my dose but it's not really doing anything anymore so not sure it's worth it.

I'm lucky in the sense that all my symptoms have been physical and I haven't been plagued by the anxiety or low mood that so many of my friends/colleagues have experienced. The reason I went on HRT was because I basically stopped sleeping. I was also permanently boiling and wearing a T-shirt to walk the dog in the snow, but while annoying I could cope with that. The lack of sleep was really starting to get me down though. After trying various approaches for a few months and also realising that my periods had become increasingly rare I went to the Dr who put me on HRT.

I found my sleep improved, the hot flushes improved, the constantly itchy skin I had (which I hadn't thought of as menopause related) also disappeared. My nails broke less and all sorts. However, a year later the old symptoms are creeping back and despite increasing my dose of HRT aren't going away. So I may stop. I don't worry about osteoporosis etc because I am very fit and active. I run, lift weights etc.

I'm really on the fence with this one. Yes we don't want to medicalise a perfectly natural process but at the same time why should women suffer if they don't need to. After all child birth is a natural process too but it hurts like hell and most people think it's a good idea to provide pain relief...

The process and changes that stop a fit and healthy 49 year old woman who worked in physical jobs her whole career unable to climb the stairs is normal?

Crikey.

"The body is more than equipped to deal with it, but mentally can be a different problem due to the severity of the symptoms."

Mentally I am a-okay, I even sleep well, but for the last three months I have been suffering muscle pains in all large muscles plus the neck. The first four years of peri Menopause werent a problem. I am mid 50s but now am hobbling around like a 90 year old. Neither exercise nor massages or warm baths helped beyond short term relief. Getting out of bed in the morning HURTS!
If I don't do anything, this will affect my ability to move and walk in the future, because I feel massively tired now and try to move so that it doesn't hurt.
I am going to see my Ob-Gyn about HRT. No need to let something like this run its course and lose my health.

Obviously not. Not all women experience those symptoms, although all women of that age group will experience menopause.

Here's a wee rage-indusing paragraph in the report:

'Menopause happens to all people with typically functioning ovaries who reach the relevant age. We recognise that this population includes some transgender men and other gender-diverse people; therefore, in some instances, we have referred to “people” rather than “women” to be as accurate and inclusive as possible. However, since much published work refers to people experiencing menopause collectively as women and does not clarify how findings might apply to the specific needs of gender-diverse people, we have also used “women” in some instances, to avoid inappropriate generalisation. Evidence on menopause in gender-diverse individuals is scarce and needs more attention'

Periods are also a natural part of women's lives. But many women have extremely painful periods with no clinical diagnosis of endo or anything. So they need medication in order to function.

Some women (me) have horrendous pms. etc etc.

Some women have signifucant cognitive and physical impacts of menopause beyond a "transition in life, have some cbt" experience. So HRT can be very helpful. Not to mention its protective against various health issues and oestrogen supplement help pelvic floor function too...

I am well aware that all women experience the menopause. I am well aware that some don't seem to experience the debilitating symptoms and want the women that do to stop being all mental about it and to shut up talking about it lest it drive forward a desire to treat the symptoms which are all in their heads as they just need some CBT and visualisations.

It's no wonder we fucking crack with this level of patronising bullshit that is endlessly thrown at us.

Yeap and I bet there has been more money poured into supporting men with erectile disfunction than menopause

No, you are saying the opposite of what Arabella said. Obviously when people are ill as a result of the menopause they need treatment, just as with any other illness. No one (and not the guardian article itself) remotely disputes this.

When other normal bodily functions go wrong and produce illness we don't have the same inability to distinguish between normal healthy functioning on the one hand and illness on the other. The immune system, for example. A wonderful complex thing that produces some degree of discomfort as part of its normal functioning but which can go dreadfully wrong in in a large number of ways and produce very serious illnesses indeed.

The worry is that by failing to distinguish clearly between menopause itself on the one hand and the ways in which it can go wrong for some women on the other, we are reverting to a narrative in which older women are boxed in by perceptions of them that define them in terms of some flawed reproductive essence.

The worry is that by failing to distinguish clearly between menopause itself on the one hand and the ways in which it can go wrong for some women on the other, we are reverting to a narrative in which older women are boxed in by perceptions of them that define them in terms of some flawed reproductive essence.

We've had people on this thread tell us it is all simple, just lift weight, just bathe in magnesium, just do some CBT or visualisation or it is all in our heads.

You started a thread demonising women for whingeing about a natural phenomenon and for taking HRT. You reverted to this narrative, not me.

I'm absolutely fucking elated that there is an industry making HRT for women. It means I can walk.

So if you have never experienced the horrors then great.

But of course women who actually know what a difference it has made are going to be angry at the suggestion that they fell for a marketing scam:

Now we are being sold a false narrative that seems to regard pathologising the menopause as a form of empowerment.

Women wanting to walk/use their limbs/remember words for simple items after the age of 50 is not empowerment, it is completely normal.

No, Alison, you're misreading and putting words in people's mouths.

Women do not take HRT for shits and giggles.

We are usually on our knees before we are deemed worthy of it.

I think that depends on your GP. Mine has virtually been pushing it at me - she asked how things were going when i was there about something else.. My only symptoms so far have been irregular periods, so I don't see the point (though i doknow thr argumentabout preventing osteoporosis etc,) but it's clear it wouldn't be a problem for me to get a prescription if I felt I needed it.

It took me 7 years, a year's worth of proof using my fitbit that I wasn't just doing fuck all all day and I had osteoporosis by the time I finally got it.

Of course it depends on your GP. Lucky you that you have one that doesn't want women to crumble before her eyes.