Update from Jo Phoenix

[Imnobody4]

Sorry can't find the previous thread. I thought someone might like to attend. 18 witnesses!! Bet that's just a tactic to intimidate.

https://twitter.com/JoPhoenix1/status/1692558010323702045?t=O8s-xIF3iu564FVwyaYEhg&s=19

NEWSFLASH

45 days to go.

I received news this week that the venue for my hearing has changed. It is now at Watford Tribunal Centre, 2nd floor, Radius House, 51 Clarendon Road, Watford. It will be in an open court (i.e. members of the public are allowed to attend). The dates remain the same.

The case starts on 2nd October with reading and preliminary issues. Evidence-giving starts on 3rd October. At present, I still do not know the exact number of witnesses the OU is calling. In the preliminary case hearing, the OU's representative claimed that they would like to call 18. We are scheduled to exchange witness statements at the end of next week (25th August) and it is then that I will know if all of those 18 witnesses are, indeed, being called to give evidence.

It is. The shit these women have had to put up with is ridiculous.

I've finally got around to reading the judgement and para 25 on page 15 has honestly made me cry.

The OU must surely have broken Prof Phoenix's heart.

Her resignation letter was very upsetting. I just wanted to give her a big hug .

The Mail are really going for them:

"Revealed: The vindictive academics blasted by judge for hounding lesbian professor out of the Open University in a harassment campaign over her gender critical beliefs"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13023907/The-vindictive-academics-blasted-judge-hounding-lesbian-professor-Open-University-harassment-campaign-gender-critical-beliefs.html

good. these cunts can dish it out, but can they take it? see how you like them apples.

Good for the Mail. I hope that university are taking action against them for their "lack of credibility" as witnesses in court.

I can’t imagine that they will enjoy the splash their names are making

Good on the Mail, odious paper though it is! Glad to see their mug shots there for everyone to see as well. Leigh Downes seems a really nasty piece of work.

Good

Yes, these academics behaved terribly. But is calling them out in the Mail going to change things in universities?

You're absolutely right that they'll dismiss it because evil Mail, and also that shaming them for their views is arguably what they did to JP

OTOH they're foul bullies, court-evidenced harassers and I'm struggling to feel much beyond 'you fucked around, you found out '.

It would be good if the Guardian or BBC journalists asked questions about why the once respected OU employs academics who mount bullying campaigns against others and then are identified by a Judge as being unreliable witnesses.

But they don't for some reason 😑

I feel empathy for most who experience trial by media, but that said... these academics behaved appallingly. They were so sure of their moral rectitude that they figured that not only was it okay - it was also desirable- to go out of their way to orchestrate a social media pile on. They MUST have known this had the potential to put Jo in danger- not just her career and her reputation, but her very mental, emotional and PHYSICAL self.

Besides- they put their names to that open letter. This is the result.

(Or as my 80 year old father would say;' Fuck'em')

In so far as a test for Civil Service, NGOs etc. is the Daily Mail test, perhaps.

I.e., a test of how comfortable you are with your decision | spending | policy is how you'd feel if it ended up as a headline in the Daily Mail.

That's true - great point.

Is there anywhere you can see the full list of names still ?

Much as I would like those who bullied Jo to see the error of their ways I suspect they will see themselves as martyrs to the cause, nobly taking one for Team Right Side of History and being victimised by the right wing via the Mail.

I’d agree with the PP though, “the Daily Mail test” is something we use (i.e. “How would we feel if this was on the front of the Mail with our name all over it?”) because being on the front of the Mail is one of the worst PR things we can imagine.

Yeah I can’t see this prompting any self reflection just increasing feelings of victimhood.

Individual public shaming like this doesn’t really address the cultural problem in academia either. Yes these academics behaved badly but they were also enabled and licensed by the wider culture.

I suppose what the DM test does potentially change is that wider culture. The OU are probably going to find that their supine tolerance of bullying by those on TRSOH was an expensive mistake; other institutions will note.

It may also make other bullies hesitate and wonder whether they want to stand behind their choices on the front pages. So far it's been pretty consequence free.

But yes, as sauce for the goose is never sauce for the gander I'll expect the wails and fainting couches about the trauma when it's done to someone who matters. As opposed to when they do it to someone else and that's ok because they deserved it.

The double standards of entitlement and assigned humanity/standards of behaviour is also a very helpful aspect of this political lobby to get out and examine in public.

SidewaysOtter · Today 14:52

Much as I would like those who bullied Jo to see the error of their ways I suspect they will see themselves as martyrs to the cause, nobly taking one for Team Right Side of History and being victimised by the right wing via the Mail.

It is tempting to say, "Well, they damned well deserve it," but then we'd be no better than them. I think the perpetrators ought to have their employment looked at, surely they're guilty of gross misconduct? Does anyone know if the OU can be made to discipline them, if they decide not to bother?

@SinnerBoy By “see the error of their ways” I mean I’d like them to realise for themselves what they’ve done. Their refusal to have done this before now (i.e. before it got to a grievance) is what’s ultimately lead to the Mail-outing. Humiliating them in the Mail is, as you say, is being no better than them (much as there is a dose of schadenfreude in my reaction to it) and will just feed into the idea that they’re actually in the right.

Agree @SinnerBoy public shaming isn’t suddenly brilliant because it’s happening to people we disagree with.

I doubt that what happens to the named individuals will be public - and that’s probably right. There’s also a lot of staff who were involved in the campaign against Prof Phoenix and the GCRN who weren’t named in the judgment. The general approach I’m sure will be made public but not this is what happened to so and so.

The academic credibility of all the witnesses is shot anyway.

Yes I don't want to see these incredible discredited bullies humiliated via the press. That's just not cricket. I'd be pleased if their employer dealt with it quite harshly but it's none of my business really.

Actually, as long as the reporting isn't abusive, I think it is in our interest to know; after all, they've breached the law with their vile bullying and harassment campaign, then lied to the court. To me, there's a definite public interest in finding out that they've been dealt with, or otherwise.

If they are disciplined, others who may want to behave similarly will, if they've any sense, be discouraged by it.