Calling medical professionals - 'assigning' sex at birth

[MmePoppySeedDefage]

There's an article in today's Times about medical matters, in which Dr Porter talks about sex assigned at birth. Someone in the comments asked if this was what actually happens, ie it's not ' observed' and he's replied:

Assign has always been the legal term - as long as I remember - it's what we write in the notes at birth based (normally) on external genitalia. I say normally because external genitalia are not always a reliable indicator of being male or female. You can look like a boy and be a female genetically, and vice versa. Rare but happens.Gender is more complex than biological sex - not least due to social constructs.

Is this right?

Those who claim sex is merely 'observed' at birth seem to be oblivious to the fact that is that were the case, then there would be no record at all of any baby's sex, and the only person with any inkling would be the professional who did the observing.

Likewise, the argument for 'recorded' at birth ignores the fact there are several stages to the process before you can reasonably record anything.

An observation is made, a value judgement made depending on what is observed, a sex assigned depending on that value, and the sex duly recorded. It is therefore entirely true and reasonable to say that sex is 'assigned' at birth whether you like the term or not.

How on earth sex is identified in utero is an absolute mystery. It's always depressing to see the medical profession regressing in terms of knowledge & skills but there you go - when an ideology takes precedence over knowledge and facts some people end up looking and sounding foolish. 😄

@XDownwiththissortofthingX it's an odd way to force the word assigned into what is a very very simple process. Are weights and lengths assigned too? A baby is placed on some scales, the numbers observed and on the basis of those numbers a weight is assigned and the assigned weight is recorded.

If the self ID ideologues don't take over and people still use science then increasingly, as I did with my second child, people will have blood tests which will unambiguously tell you early on in the pregnancy if the child is XX or XY (or presumably the vanishingly rare other combinations). So sex will be on the notes well before birth.

'Assigned' sex is total bollocks and it's clear on this thread who the real medical professionals are.

I really fear for the future of healthcare if this identity rubbish takes over - we're going to have self identified doctors and surgeons and a much higher death rate.

Yes.

Personally I don't have any preference for what you want to call it, but the fact is, for the purpose of forming a legal record of sex at the time of birth, assignment is very much part of that process as it is impossible to make a record without it taking place, so people that claim 'sex is not assigned' are mistaken.

"Assigned a weight" what utter nonsense.

I think xdownwiththissortofthingx just had their arse assigned to them.

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Ach well I disagree with your theory on that @XDownwiththissortofthingX and certainly the midwives posting here don't consider your use of "assigning" to be relevant.

The reason that "assigning" is used by those pushing gender ideology is to make it seem like the supposed assignment is often incorrect and not based on the reality of sex. Hence making it possible for people who are unequivocally male to become female and vice versa.

Sick of this crap!! Penis = boy. Vulva/vagina = girl. End of.

I think the issue here is that some people's definition of what 'assigned' means varies. One of the dictionary definitions of 'assigned' is to 'distribute available things'

The TRA suggestion is that this is a random process at birth - so midwives and doctors just have an equal number of male and female stickers which they give out randomly to babies. Rather than being based on observable and measurable facts, facts like having an observable penis or having had a test during pregnancy that shows XY chromosomes (as well as having a penis).

I agree with your second paragraph, however, it changes nothing about my point that those who state 'assignment' doesn't take place are mistaken.

It's semantic, but nonetheless true.

Can't find the article - does anyone have a link? Ta.

"It's semantic, but nonetheless true."

Nope. That's your opinion, your particular interpretation of what's happening.

I knew my child's sex chromosomes before even 20 weeks, thanks to a blood test. Nothing was "assigned" at any point, what absolute nonsense this all is.

I’ve had four children in hospital, of both sexes, and nowhere on any form or record given to me does anyone use the term “assigned”. I never heard it used out loud either. “It’s a boy” or “it’s a girl”.

And I didn’t even think about the chromosomal blood tests! I had those, too. So I knew the sex of three of my kids at 13 weeks or whenever they do the test. Long before birth.

Well said

The term is a direct lift from DSD/intersex advocacy groups, who were using it about not just recording, but actual physical procedures performed to normalise genitalia. And in that context both the "assign" and the "at birth" bit makes sense. The reason it doesn't make sense for "trans" is it's not about them!

What the trans activists are trying to steal is the sense of an artificial imposition - which is what the DSD activists were accurately talking about - rather than the reality of just recording the natural state and not taking any action.

I don't think you would necessarily know. Some intersex conditions aren't observed by doctors until puberty doesn't progress as expected.

When I said 'like 0.001' I was not being scientifically accurate just trying to say miniscule chance so I'll defer to you on the stats @HaveYouHeardOfARoadAtlas

I'm not a medical professional but my understanding is most if not all DSDs start on a male or female pathway which then goes wrong

I think true ambiguity as to whether the baby woukd hve become a boy or girl had they not had the dsd is v v rare?

But yes, this also

Yes, I have hears of CAIS where the person looks to all intents and purposes like a girl, but the female innards are unformed and only when it gets to puberty and no periods etc is it discovered.

Sex is observed and recorded. No 'value judgment' required. It is what it is.