Should a civil-service union promote harassment and discrimination? - Sex Maters

[IwantToRetire]

Have only just seen this:

At its annual conference starting on Tuesday 23rd May, PCS – Public and Commercial Services Union, the largest civil-service union – is planning to debate motions that denigrate gender-critical civil servants and the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

The motions seek to commit the union to a political stance about legalising gender self-ID, and to slip gender identities into government policy via a data system for civil-service HR data. Meanwhile, as the media have already reported, there is a motion calling for BDSM (Bondage, Discipline, Sadism and Masochism) training for civil servants.

https://sex-matters.org/posts/freedom-of-speech/should-a-civil-service-union-promote-harassment-and-discrimination/

I'm assuming they are talking about this:

• UK Law does not contain the concept of “Sex
based Rights” but operates from a standpoint of
equal rights
• The Equality Act 2010 lays out very clear rights to
exclude people with the protected characteristic
of Gender Reassignment where it is a proportional
means to achieving a legitimate aim, and that these
provisions are an exception, not the rule, to be
applied on a case-by-case basis.
This conference believes:
• Biological reductionism is harmful to all women
and forms the basis of many patriarchal notions of
biology as destiny.
• The suffragettes fought for equal rights, and against
the sex-based rights of men, and this is the basis of
modern progressive feminism.
• Sex is not binary and to say so excludes people with
differences of sexual development amongst others.
This conference further believes:
• The SEEN promotes a regressive ideology which
seeks to be exclusionary and is detrimental to the
rights of all women.
• The stated aims of SEEN will promote division and
exclusion in the workplace, and could create an
unfounded atmosphere of fear towards people with
the protected characteristic of gender reassignment
This conference calls on the NEC:
• To express our concerns to the Cabinet Office
regarding its support for the establishment of the
SEEN
• To produce and circulate a branch bulletin
confirming the legal position that the protected
characteristic of sex includes legal sex, and the
proper application of the provisions of the Equality
Act 2010 regarding the exclusion of people with the
protected characteristic of Gender Reassignment
according to the EHRC statutory guidance
• To produce and circulate a members’ bulletin
reaffirming PCS support for Trans inclusion in
the workplace, the understanding that Trans
rights and women’s rights are not in opposition,
our commitment to the Public Sector Duty, and
opposition to exclusionary ideologies that reduce
the complexities and reality of our identity and lived
experiences to the biological characteristics of sex
alone.

A43
Covers E176, E177, E178
DWP Bradford (047002)
HMRC Glasgow (200119)
https://sex-matters.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/PCS-MOTIONS-BOOK.pdf

Does anyone know what happened?

Oh it’s a tantrum about SEEN

As a member of both SEEN and PCS, my heart sinks. 😔

I've recently posted on the whistleblowers at EHRC thread that I'm not surprised at the actions of the staff given my experience of the civil service. And this just confirms my stance.

PCS put out a letter a while back saying they stand for trans rights and TWAW, TMAM, NBAV etc and although they acknowledge Maya Forstator's win, the management of GC views in the workplace is a grey area. Basically you can believe what you like, but you're not allowed to express it.

Then they had to retract that letter 'after seeking legal advice' (I wonder if the SEEN guys challenged them) but funnily enough, the retraction wasn't sent to everyone like the pro-trans letter was 🤔

Several unions are horrendous on these issues. Utterly partisan, anti women and reactionary.

I don't really know what can be done about it.

Jeez. I would consider being required to sit through BDSM training in work as creating a hostile work environment and a form of sexual harrassment. I have zero interest learning about how other people enjoy hurting each other. I go out of my way to avoid that kind of content. I find violence upsetting. People can do whatever they want in private, provided they stay within the law (I thinking of those DIY home eunuch sugery guys in the courts recently). It should have no place in the working environment. What the fuck are these people thinking?

I'm a member of both and I'll ditch PCS first. They're demented anyway.

But would I trust them with my data if I told them why? Not for a minute.

Urgh. The PCS guys in our dept have been on at me for ages to join. Thanks for another reason not to.

On a slightly unrelated note, I love the typo in your thread title: Sex Maters - it has both connotations of ‘women who are mothers and aren’t standing for any more gender woo’ AND sounds sorta like a Bene Gesserit-like organisation (Bene Gesserit being a very cool group of women with mind control powers & awesome martial arts skills in the novel ‘Dune’) 👍👍

On the topic of your thread, it seems a lot of the Unions have all bought in to gender woo 🥺

I won't be leaving PCS over them debating the motion. I might leave them if they passed it, which I hope they won't. But I also might not, because pay and conditions is also a pretty massive deal right now IMO and whilst this nonsense is eternally a disappointment, they're not remotely in UCU-land of performative political posturing all over twitter whilst Rome burns. I support the PCS leadership, who keep the focus on their bread and butter, however much the TRAs might think it's an ideal time to advance the interests of kink in the workplace FFS.

Especially on a day when the FDA are rowing back on their threat of industrial action.

All welcome to join Sex Maters!

I got so caught as I only read about this by chance, I didn't stop to proof read.

But back to the OP - does anyone know if this motion was passed, discussed or ...

How does one find out?

Will there be an official conference report?

FFS! These idiots don't believe that sex is binary?! Simon Edge has tried to make this stuff up, but it's beyond even his powers of parody...

.

I wouldn't put too much store by it, from memory there's always been daft motions at conference (used to be a PCS rep and attended a few times).

I wouldn't put too much store by it, from memory there's always been daft motions at conference

I hope you are right. I have just read the Sex Matters article in full, and in fact there seems to have been a whole array of motions along similar lines.

But it is an indication of just how deeply embedded the trans narrative has become.

When you link these motions to the staff activity at the EHRC and the behaviour of the Oxford SU and the Guardian treatment of women journalists and .... it seems like they are lurking every where and seem undetered by any negative responses to their behaviour, let alone reasoned arguements against their position.

And if any of these motions got passed at the PCS Conference that would be further evidence that the trans activists just aren't going to stop.

It’s a co-ordinated effort across trans networks, and likely led by one particularly toxic individual who almost certainly wrote the motion.
He spends almost all his time meeting other activists, delivering trans-orientated presentations, training and consultation to a wide range of organisations including NHS, Police, schools and other educational institutions.
He is infuriated by the existence of SEEN and uses every opportunity to tell people it’s a right wing ideology imported from America which “denigrates women”! (I kid you not)
He dominates every LGBTQ event across the department he “works” for and away from official eyes and ears tones down his bullying rhetoric. Within captured spaces/audiences (TU meetings) he rages and bullies, whipping up others to do the same. He’s not alone, but he’s certainly hugely influential and well cushioned.
Fortunately the opposition has been steadily growing and gaining strength and members. We can hope for balance to be restored and for the right people to stop cowering and rein in this publicly funded ideologue.

What happens when the civil service union takes an overtly political stance? A stance at odds with the elected government of the day? Can they be dissolved? Their leaders sacked? What sanctions can be applied?

Sorry wrong thread.

Oh no it wasn’t. Getting muddled

I think you are getting confused with the political restrictions placed on certain grades of civil servants.

Or with the responsibility of civil servants to be politically impartial in the course of their employment.

Neither of these things has any impact on the right of a trade union to take any political position it chooses.

Are there any unions to join for civil servants who know sex is binary and support women’s rights?

Frustrating if one individual can wield so much influence. There are a number of such individuals in key positions. It’s been very cleverly curated.

I will leave PCS if they pass such a motion .

We need a gc union, or at least one that recognises the right to hold gc views. Is there one?

The only trade unionist I’m aware of with gc views is Paul Embery of the firefighters union but I don’t know the position of the union itself.

I was at the conference- the motion wasn't debated as the time was used up on motions placed higher up the agenda.
The BDSM motion was placed dead last and had no chance of being debated- it was withdrawn anyway following a request from the NEC.
I like being in a Trade Union where any member who can get a motion passed at their branch has a chance to see that passed at conference and become policy- even if I disagree with the motions themselves.

Thanks. Can anyone identify as a firefighter?