Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Oxfam inclusive language guide

52 replies

Imicola · 16/03/2023 18:41

This thread sums it up much better than i could...

twitter.com/DrKarleenG/status/1636272910120923136?s=20

OP posts:
nepeta · 16/03/2023 19:19

I read the guide. It begins by arguing that language can deconstruct systems of power that maintain poverty etc, so it is all based on queer theory and the idea that language changes reality.

If it does, then the way their recommendations erase our ability to fight against sex-based oppression is a truly ghastly move.

An example from the disability section:

Acting ‘in solidarity with’ is an alternative
to ‘standing with’, which avoids
potentially alienating people who are
unable to stand. It is a more inclusive
phrase to demonstrate a common cause
or interest.

This clearly means that I shouldn't have started this sentence with 'clearly' as it could refer to visual clarity or clarity of thinking and would be potentially alienating for people who have visual problems or who suffer from a bout of dizziness and so on.

Also, we must never use expressions such as "Do we hear anything from the ground?" or "They don't see the difficulties in their proposal" or "This is my running commentary" and so on.

Then there is this contradiction:

Gender norms are the culturally held ideals and expectations of behaviour and the different roles of men and women in society. Gender norms are important to our understanding of inequality because in every country in the world, they lead to the devaluing of women; whether through women’s disproportionate responsibility for unpaid care work, unequal access to education, being paid less for the same work as men, forced marriage or many other issues.
....
The norms also erase the existence of non-binary and gender-fluid people, as well as people of other genders as differently expressed in the different contexts and cultures in which we work.

But later:

Gender can also be understood as
an identity. A person’s innate sense
of their own gender may or may not
correspond to the sex they were
assigned at birth, for example, trans
men and women and non-binary
people, and people of other genders
as differently expressed in the
different contexts and cultures in
which we work.

And in the definition of gender-nonconforming:

People who do not conform to the
social norms associated with the
gender that correlates with their sex
assigned at birth

These things clash with each other: * *

Either gender is the thing which keeps women down (it is) or it is this internal feeling which we must let everyone pursue, irrespective of their sex, for the sake of social justice. If it is assumed to be both (as this guide seems to assume), then women who have not transitioned are presumably choosing their own oppression!

And either it is important not to have strict and oppressive gender norms for everyone, or those who don't have them must have a special name (gender-nonconforming) while everyone else is perfectly fine with their socially assigned genders (us 'cis' people) or what they have chosen for themselves (trans and nonbinary people).

nepeta · 16/03/2023 19:22

The guide also recommends the use of 'intersex' which is no longer the label individuals with DSD wish to be used, and overstates the prevalence of those conditions.

Imicola · 16/03/2023 20:39

I totally agree. Some parts i think are helpful, but the forcing of gender ideology in there and all the inherent contradictions that that entails is awful. I surprisingly thought their distinction between gender and sex was helpful... until then you try to use it to decipher the rest. Very disappointing.

Plus of course the issues around assuming broad acceptance of a western ideology in a document aiming to help address issues related colonialism. It's just mind blowingly stupid.

OP posts:
ControversialOpening · 16/03/2023 21:02

I’m so pleased i no longer donate to Oxfam. People who give them their hard earned money must be so pleased to discover that this is what they spend it on.

JellySaurus · 16/03/2023 21:23

I had a colleague who used to get pissed off by virtue-signalling 'inclusive' language.

"Don't call me visually impaired," she'd say, "I'm blind. I can't see a fucking thing. The one thing I can see is that you're afraid of my blindness." She was take-no-hostages awesome.

SignOnTheWindow · 16/03/2023 21:25

JellySaurus · 16/03/2023 21:23

I had a colleague who used to get pissed off by virtue-signalling 'inclusive' language.

"Don't call me visually impaired," she'd say, "I'm blind. I can't see a fucking thing. The one thing I can see is that you're afraid of my blindness." She was take-no-hostages awesome.

She sounds great!

LaGiaconda · 16/03/2023 21:39

I am really puzzled by the fact I am not supposed to describe myself as 'senior' or 'elderly'. Nor if I want to talk about the recently born, should I allude to 'youth'…...

JellySaurus · 16/03/2023 21:43

LaGiaconda · 16/03/2023 21:39

I am really puzzled by the fact I am not supposed to describe myself as 'senior' or 'elderly'. Nor if I want to talk about the recently born, should I allude to 'youth'…...

You're not supposed to speak about yourself at all. Just sit and smile enigmatically, like a good, passive woman.

💨 (that's JellySaurus disappearing in a puff of smoke for having said a forbidden word)

lanadelgrey · 16/03/2023 22:44

A woman from DR Congo spoke clearly and eloquently at the UCL conference about how groups of women fighting to protect women from rape during the intractable civil war had to use the ‘right’ language to gain assistance and money from western NGOs. No effort to listen to and hear what those who desperately need aid actually want - modern colonisation in practise

DameMaud · 16/03/2023 23:43

lanadelgrey · 16/03/2023 22:44

A woman from DR Congo spoke clearly and eloquently at the UCL conference about how groups of women fighting to protect women from rape during the intractable civil war had to use the ‘right’ language to gain assistance and money from western NGOs. No effort to listen to and hear what those who desperately need aid actually want - modern colonisation in practise

That's shocking Lanadelray!
Is that talk from the conference available online anywhere please?

I despair of the NGOs ever coming to recognize the irony of their own form of colonialism.
Being able to recognise our own blind spots requires critical and contextual thinking, and exposure to and openness to differing viewpoints.
I don't have faith in, or see much evidence of, these things being valued right now. (My DS is off to Uni next year, and this doesn't hold the joyous excitement I would like to feel for him.)

It's so disheartening to see so little of this In the culture- and institutions right now. At a time in history- where so much knowledge and connection is available too! We could be so wise instead of, as it seems, getting rapidly more ignorant.

And the knock on effect of this lack has such enormous world wide implications- especially for the truly most vulnerable . As your example highlights.

Sorry for ramble. It's late and this stuff sends me off on a spin!

DameMaud · 16/03/2023 23:53

Also, I've mentioned it before on another thread. This made me think of Ethan Watters talk/ book 'Crazy like Us', where he describes the damage some western NGOs did going into disaster zones to impose Western notions of trauma and trauma care. They couldn't recognise that the cultures they came to 'help' might have their own meanings and resources for managing suffering and repair.
Sometimes I think it's akin to 'a little knowledge an be a dangerous thing'.

ExiledElsie · 17/03/2023 07:46

On a similar note

Gender norms are important to our understanding of inequality because in every country in the world, they lead to the devaluing of women;

Bit colonialist? I thought other cultures had third genders that we should be learning from.

Can anyone recommend a decent charity?

lanadelgrey · 17/03/2023 07:47

she was an audience member who I think spoke at the end of the showing of Adult Human Female so I’m not sure that bit was filmed. However, FiLiA panels have also spoken about this kind of thing.

Hoppinggreen · 17/03/2023 07:49

How much did they pay some consultant to come up with that pile of shite?

Florissant · 17/03/2023 07:52

JellySaurus · 16/03/2023 21:23

I had a colleague who used to get pissed off by virtue-signalling 'inclusive' language.

"Don't call me visually impaired," she'd say, "I'm blind. I can't see a fucking thing. The one thing I can see is that you're afraid of my blindness." She was take-no-hostages awesome.

I like your colleague's style. More power to her elbow.

NotHavingIt · 17/03/2023 08:00

lanadelgrey · 16/03/2023 22:44

A woman from DR Congo spoke clearly and eloquently at the UCL conference about how groups of women fighting to protect women from rape during the intractable civil war had to use the ‘right’ language to gain assistance and money from western NGOs. No effort to listen to and hear what those who desperately need aid actually want - modern colonisation in practise

Absolutely!

Colonisation by U.S originated academic theories is the new oppression. How ironic!

NotHavingIt · 17/03/2023 08:02

DameMaud · 16/03/2023 23:53

Also, I've mentioned it before on another thread. This made me think of Ethan Watters talk/ book 'Crazy like Us', where he describes the damage some western NGOs did going into disaster zones to impose Western notions of trauma and trauma care. They couldn't recognise that the cultures they came to 'help' might have their own meanings and resources for managing suffering and repair.
Sometimes I think it's akin to 'a little knowledge an be a dangerous thing'.

Yes, absolutely! I read that too. Well worth a read,

DameMaud · 17/03/2023 09:11

Ah ok. Thanks for responding Lana

DameMaud · 17/03/2023 09:12

lanadelgrey · 17/03/2023 07:47

she was an audience member who I think spoke at the end of the showing of Adult Human Female so I’m not sure that bit was filmed. However, FiLiA panels have also spoken about this kind of thing.

Ah ok. Thanks for responding Lana

TodayInahurry · 17/03/2023 09:22

I am sure the women living lives of violence and oppression will be so pleased with this evil pure, meaningless drivel

IcakethereforeIam · 17/03/2023 10:40

This seems to have hit twitter and the papers. Sorry, only a DM (darling Mail?) link but I think the Times is also running an article. If it isn't picked up by the Telegraph I'd be very surprised, the Guardian though, not so much.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11869961/Oxfams-new-92-page-inclusivity-guide-calls-English-language-colonising-nation.html

ReunitedThorns · 17/03/2023 11:25

GMB interviewed the Oxfam GB CEO.

They didn't start the interview by asking for his pronouns, and he didn't request theirs either. Clearly he's not following his own guidance.

howmanybicycles · 17/03/2023 13:23

The document confuses gender and sex and thereby refuses to recognise sex based oppression. It also says everyone has a gender identity, which is a lie. I have donated every month to oxfam for 25 years and I will be stopping that today and giving to an alternative charity. Does DEC have a better moral compass as far as people know?

NeverTrustAPoliceman · 17/03/2023 13:41

I cancelled my Oxfam direct debit yesterday and told them why.

I will also tell my local shop why I will no longer donate goods to them or buy from them.

Rightsraptor · 17/03/2023 13:55

Isn't DEC an umbrella organisation though, @howmanybicycles? If they are, I suspect they'll be only as good as their component parts. So no good at all.

I prefer small, local and long-term charities like anti-FGM ones.