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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Times: rape crisis founder backs JKR, 2/3 voters oppose GRR, Sturgeon husband and SNP loan, and film screening stories

51 replies

ResisterRex · 15/12/2022 08:17

Stories in the Times today:

Two thirds of voters oppose SNP’s gender reform plans

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bdf96958-7c02-11ed-bcd8-855e06175970?shareToken=a8873d488ae0751017c66553578cf5a7

Nicola Sturgeon’s husband Peter Murrell failed to declare £100,000 loan to SNP

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3c1681a0-7bbc-11ed-8486-22782b7fe87b?shareToken=56b39ab4e0617d9741619b13140375ea

Film screening called off after trans protest

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/61def9dc-7c00-11ed-8486-22782b7fe87b?shareToken=0b017501a14788a13d028990c38e653d

Rape Crisis founder backs Rowling’s trauma centre

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/4c40fd1c-7bfd-11ed-bcd8-855e06175970?shareToken=7b7fb627ebffd56e1c2e12f294e87fab

OP posts:
Whereareyourshoes · 15/12/2022 11:27

Christmasisshit · 15/12/2022 09:39

From the Rape Crisis Founder article

"Rape Crisis Scotland said: “It is crucial that the life-saving support offered by Rape Crisis centres is available to trans and non-binary people. All Rape Crisis services in Scotland offer support to trans women and have done so for 15 years. There has not been a single incident of anyone abusing this.”

Is this true? Has there never been a (known) incident?

I don’t know what Rape Crisis Scotland would class as an incident but the mere presence of any male person, no matter how they identity, can be traumatic for those who have suffered from male violence.

Karen Ingala Smith is worth listening to:

https://kareningalasmith.com/2020/07/08/trauma-informed-services-for-women-subjected-to-mens-violence-must-be-single-sex-services/

And a speech she gave to the Scottish Parliament:

https://kareningalasmith.com/2020/01/20/the-importance-of-women-only-spaces-and-services-for-women-and-girls-whove-been-subjected-to-mens-violence/

Thelnebriati · 15/12/2022 11:42

Presented without comment;
Rape Crisis National Service Standards page 6
www.rapecrisisscotland.org.uk/resources/RCNSSsummaryexternaldoc19-1.pdf

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 15/12/2022 11:47

Thelnebriati · 15/12/2022 11:42

Presented without comment;
Rape Crisis National Service Standards page 6
www.rapecrisisscotland.org.uk/resources/RCNSSsummaryexternaldoc19-1.pdf

‘The organisation is women led’

except when we pretend some men are women so we can all feel super modern and edgy

ArabellaScott · 15/12/2022 12:20

bellinisurge · 15/12/2022 09:52

For those of you who don't know the poll tax reference: it was a policy that sunk Margaret Thatcher (basically changing council tax into personal local tax. If you were on the local electoral register, you had to pay this local tax). Thatcher's party dumped her after she tried to keep this going. There were riots. I was someone who was old enough to have been liable for paying it.

And crucially, was brought in early in Scotland. As far as I recall, it was so disastrous, it wasn't brought in as had been planned in rUK.

Thelnebriati · 15/12/2022 13:15

Its also crucial to remember that although the riots and protests scuppered the Poll Tax, they just clawed the money back from us by putting up VAT. Which is an identical flat rate tax.

Toseland · 15/12/2022 13:17

I'd like to hear what any women excluded from Edinbrugh rape crisis have to say and those who attended how did they find it?
I'd also like to know if Mr Sturgeon was given the £100k to donate by somebody else, perhaps a pharmaceutical company like what happened with the Lib Dems?

ArabellaScott · 15/12/2022 13:24

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/rape-crisis-charity-funds-plea-28717710

'Rape Crisis faces 'catastrophic' job losses without Scottish Government funding

Rape Crisis Scotland sounded the alarm after a grant which had slashed waiting lists ended.'

pattihews · 15/12/2022 13:28

It's not just the fact that so many of my local DV/ SV services are trans-inclusive that would put me off contacting them except in the direst emergency, it's knowing that so many of them are run by women who believe that I, with my GC views, need to be re-educated. Diversity and inclusion has done terrible damage to women.

ResisterRex · 15/12/2022 13:51

JKR's poll tax comparison reported by the Mail:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11541761/JK-Rowling-calls-SNPs-Gender-Recognition-Reform-Bill-assault-rights-women-girls.html

I smiled at the explanation of the poll tax - because I forgot some people wouldn't know and maybe I'm really old!! It will confuse the left wingers who don't know what it is when they look it up.

But...she's....she's saying it's like this really unpopular Tory policy that...finished off Thatcher?? Whaaaaaat

OP posts:
Happylittlechicken · 15/12/2022 13:53

ArabellaScott · 15/12/2022 13:24

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/rape-crisis-charity-funds-plea-28717710

'Rape Crisis faces 'catastrophic' job losses without Scottish Government funding

Rape Crisis Scotland sounded the alarm after a grant which had slashed waiting lists ended.'

Why don’t they get one of the trans billionaires like Pfizer to donate. I mean if JK can do it for womens services, surely a male with a trans identity who is very rich could do the same for a trans inclusive service….?

HopRockers · 15/12/2022 15:43

Thank you Rex

"Student activists issued a statement condemning Adult Human Female, a film they said “hinges on the assertion that transwomen are men”." 🤪🤪🤪

Susan Smith, Reem Alsalem & other wonderful women 🥃🥃🥃

FrancescaContini · 15/12/2022 16:19

More exposure of the absurdity of this movement. Feel very sorry for all women in Scotland (apart from the female students who took part in the demonstration against the film screening: no idea why you’re bothering with a university education if your mind is already so closed).

FrancescaContini · 15/12/2022 16:20

HopRockers · 15/12/2022 15:43

Thank you Rex

"Student activists issued a statement condemning Adult Human Female, a film they said “hinges on the assertion that transwomen are men”." 🤪🤪🤪

Susan Smith, Reem Alsalem & other wonderful women 🥃🥃🥃

Exactly 🤪

Helleofabore · 15/12/2022 16:33

There was a MN FWR thread over the past year discussing a woman's experience where she was in a shared room with a male in a women's DV shelter (somewhere in the UK I believe) and that male watched porn and masturbated in bed in the shared room.

There were other reports of inappropriate male behaviour at other places too.

What stood out to me though is that those women who are confronted with the males presence, what ever they are doing, are the women who are not the ones who feel they have any power to report the behaviour. They are traumatised and may never mention it to the provider. Particularly if they feel that the provider may ask them to leave if they say anything.

These are not necessarily going to be the women to report or to say anything to anyone about this.

TheBiologyStupid · 15/12/2022 16:56

ResisterRex · 15/12/2022 13:51

JKR's poll tax comparison reported by the Mail:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11541761/JK-Rowling-calls-SNPs-Gender-Recognition-Reform-Bill-assault-rights-women-girls.html

I smiled at the explanation of the poll tax - because I forgot some people wouldn't know and maybe I'm really old!! It will confuse the left wingers who don't know what it is when they look it up.

But...she's....she's saying it's like this really unpopular Tory policy that...finished off Thatcher?? Whaaaaaat

A derail, but Roy Hanney, an old flatmate of my oldest friend, was falsely arrested during the London poll tax riots for affray. He became the first person to be acquitted in the UK because the jury had asked the judge to stop the trial.

Chapter 4: Riots and Rebellion says:

A witness, who had been taken away in the same van as Mr. Hanney (the defendant) corroborated his testimony, saying that, in fact, it was he who had been beaten up — by the police!: "[PC Egan] hit him repeatedly. At some stages he changed to punching him with his right hand because the man was trying to cover his head. It went on for at least three minutes."

A medical report confirmed that he had bruising to his forehead, eyebrows and back, and a loss of sensation in his arm. The statements which the police produced in court were supposed to be independent accounts of what happened. PC Egan theoretically wrote his statement at Rochester Row, at 6.45 p.m., while PC Ramsay made his at City Road more than three hours later:

[The two statements were almost word-for-word the same.]

The police tried to suggest that any similarities were coincidental but, when the defence asked to see PC Ramsay's handwritten original it showed that 'shaven' had been crossed out and substituted with 'close cropped'. Most of the jurors responded with open laughter and in the middle of the trial they sent a note to the judge which said they had discussed the case briefly in the courtroom lift and were '...unanimously convinced of the defendant's innocence.' (The Observer, 11 /11 /90).
libcom.org/library/chapter-4-riot-rebellion

Roy successfully sued the London Met for false imprisonment, assault and battery, and malicious prosecution by two territorial support officers and received £30,000 in compensation: www.independent.co.uk/news/police-pay-163-30-000-for-poll-tax-riot-assault-1567769.html

Grammarnut · 15/12/2022 20:06

My DH was an early protester against the poll tax. He lived at the time in Shetland - Scotland was the test bed - and went to prison. Thereafter he paid the tax in rabbit tails, Shetland council paying a bounty on these as rabbits are an pest on the islands. Shetland council were not happy.

TheBiologyStupid · 15/12/2022 20:26

I hope that the ability to pay in rabbit tails (scuts) was better thought through than the equivalent scheme for rats in Hanoi! (Or may not, thinking of it from the bunnies' point of view!) en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Hanoi_Rat_Massacre

Signalbox · 15/12/2022 21:20

Christmasisshit · 15/12/2022 09:39

From the Rape Crisis Founder article

"Rape Crisis Scotland said: “It is crucial that the life-saving support offered by Rape Crisis centres is available to trans and non-binary people. All Rape Crisis services in Scotland offer support to trans women and have done so for 15 years. There has not been a single incident of anyone abusing this.”

Is this true? Has there never been a (known) incident?

At this point I wouldn't trust the statistics. If there had been an incident would they have made it public? Would it have been recorded as a woman on woman assault? Bet they were glad that the paeodophile Dolatowski moved south of the boarder when he conned his way into a woman's refuge.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11392601/Transgender-paedophile-caught-duping-staff-71-day-stay-domestic-violence-refuge.html

Signalbox · 15/12/2022 21:24

Oh it seems Dolatowski also spent some time in a women's refuge in Fife.

archive.ph/JEf8w#selection-771.0-774.0

"Women’s groups were outraged when it was revealed that having avoided a jail term, Dolatowski was placed in a women’s refuge in Fife. They demanded better protections for female-only spaces, which are protected under the Equality Act 2010."

ResisterRex · 16/12/2022 08:14

Interesting post about the poll tax @TheBiologyStupid. I like going back and seeing what happened in various events. There's another thread on the history of the GRA which is also a good one.

OP posts:
ResisterRex · 16/12/2022 08:16

Grammarnut · 15/12/2022 20:06

My DH was an early protester against the poll tax. He lived at the time in Shetland - Scotland was the test bed - and went to prison. Thereafter he paid the tax in rabbit tails, Shetland council paying a bounty on these as rabbits are an pest on the islands. Shetland council were not happy.

I wonder what things we are allowed to pay in an obscure way as a form of civil disobedience?

I also wonder whatever happened to the census forms many of us filled out with an extra page about data?

OP posts:
ResisterRex · 16/12/2022 10:08

JKR's poll tax comparison in The Times:

Gender reform will be Sturgeon’s poll tax, says JK Rowling

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b732cf46-7ca3-11ed-bcd8-855e06175970?shareToken=9d57f15418e6c0d7f0cc98433e796e61

OP posts:
ResisterRex · 16/12/2022 10:10

And:

Alex Massie Holyrood Sketch: The good UN official v the bad UN official

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/936e2cb2-7cc7-11ed-8486-22782b7fe87b?shareToken=be8abe17dfe86e55ba1428a988bd73be

OP posts:
RoyalCorgi · 16/12/2022 10:25

HopRockers · 15/12/2022 15:43

Thank you Rex

"Student activists issued a statement condemning Adult Human Female, a film they said “hinges on the assertion that transwomen are men”." 🤪🤪🤪

Susan Smith, Reem Alsalem & other wonderful women 🥃🥃🥃

Any sane person reading that will say "And...?"

It's like the flat-earthers expressing outrage that some people insist the earth is round.

Much as I loathe the misogyny and homophobia of trans ideology, it's the stupidity of it that always hits me the most. The fact that there are educated people endorsing obvious nonsense.

nepeta · 16/12/2022 18:12

The quote about services for transgender and nonbinary people is worth thinking about, as both those categories are mixed sex categories, and we here tend to define women as a biological sex category.

So from the latter angle trans men and nonbinary-identifying female people are welcome to the only-women refuge, but trans women and nonbinary male people are not.

The angle used in that quote doesn't make any distinction between male nonbinary rape victims and female nonbinary male victims or between trans women and trans men. So they focus on the idea of inner abstract identities as defining one's gender, which suggests that they would not expect Breida to accept nonbinary female people or nonbinary male people or trans men, but would expect that Breida accepts trans women.

That doesn't really make any sense to me, because I see no reason why some abstract feeling about gender (which many people don't even have) should be the basis for putting victims into different classes here. Biological sex is a much more predictive variable in terms of the group rapists come from, so classes based on biological sex make more sense. All victims should have access to refuges, of course, but this can be done separately by sex.

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