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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Report that EHRC's statutory codes of practice are under review

34 replies

ResisterRex · 29/04/2022 12:55

Sex matters has posted that the EHRC is reviewing the codes for employment, services, public functions, and equal pay. This is not on the EHRC site but the EHRC has recently tweeted about sex discrimination:

sex-matters.org/posts/single-sex-services/statutory-codes-of-practice-under-review/
"On 27th April 2022, at a seminar on single-sex services and the Equality Act 2010, at Matrix Chambers, Equality and Human Rights Commissioner Akua Reindorf shared news that the EHRC is reviewing the statutory Codes of Practice."

twitter.com/EHRC/status/1518973417441091584 (dated 26 Apr) with link to this: www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/sex-discrimination

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/05/2022 00:06

(I’m finding it impossible to copy and paste on this new site version)

Really? I'm on the app which is glitchy as fuck but can still c&p.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/05/2022 00:07

I had always understood (but perhaps am wrong) that not discriminating on the basis of being transgender was in respect of someone of the same SEX, ie you couldn’t exclude a trans woman from a prostate cancer support group on the basis of them identifying as a woman.

Yes I think that would be clear discrimination on the grounds of gender reassignment.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/05/2022 00:10

But the example of an exception given in the legislation is that of it being proportionate and legitimate to exclude a male to female transsexual from an all female assault victim counselling group.

There are multiple examples of exceptions. I see that as a clarification that sex is biological or in general based on having a GRC, but it might be reasonable to exclude those males too in this context.

MaudeYoung · 01/05/2022 07:28

As Naomi Cunningham, a QC with expertise in discrimination law, said elsewhere:

"Being entitled not to suffer discrimination on grounds of gender reassignment is not the same thing as being entitled to be treated as the opposite sex”.

This statement sums up where the trans activists have misinterpreted the law. Not even the GRA gives entitlement to be treated as the opposite sex in all circumstances; its performance is strictly limited.

Fieldofgreycorn · 01/05/2022 21:08

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/05/2022 00:06

(I’m finding it impossible to copy and paste on this new site version)

Really? I'm on the app which is glitchy as fuck but can still c&p.

I’ve never used the app. I can only highlight one word at a time to copy but when I try and expand the selection it immediately highlights the entire page.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 02/05/2022 07:48

Ah ok Field I would let MN know on Site Stuff.

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 02/05/2022 10:56

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/04/2022 15:44

I don't see that there is any real basis for "case by case" when it comes to matters of risk, privacy and dignity. We don't run female only spaces on the basis that some men can come in depending on the circumstances and whether they are proven to sexually harass women in other cases.

Sorry, I am late back to this.

Recently we have used the new EHRC guidelines to bolster our 'case by case' decisions.

We decided that the case of a transwoman, born male, male bodied, was one we would deem unsuitable for inclusion in our service. We therefore would reject any and all applications by transwomen in the same basis as we reject applications from all other men. And we would signpost them to other services, even offering transport, food, clothing as we do so.

We had already revisited our T+C's a couple of years ago, when we had our one and only transwoman applicant. At that time we asked our incumbent clients what they thought and they all said no. We thought that was 'case by case' but were told, quite forcibly, by one woman, solicitor, victim of DV, that we were wrong and were in danger of traumatising our clients if we carried on in that vein.

The upshot was we changed our policies and she now works for us sometimes.

But it took her anger to make us realise that we had simply gone along with an incorrect interpretation of 'case by case', as given to use by the LA. They too are now looking again, though they never did have the sex and gender confusion they were quite vociferous about inclusivity. They seem to be having a rethink.

So I do have hope...

LangClegsInSpace · 02/05/2022 15:06

'Case by case' comes from the current statutory code which says:

13.60 - As stated at the beginning of this chapter, any exception to the prohibition of discrimination must be applied as restrictively as possible and the denial of a service to a transsexual person should only occur in exceptional circumstances. A service provider can have a policy on provision of the service to transsexual users but should apply this policy on a case-by-case basis in order to determine whether the exclusion of a transsexual person is proportionate in the individual circumstances.

(my bold)

It's very clear from that, that it does mean trans person by trans person, on an individual basis. If it meant situation by situation it would be redundant.

Case by case is nowhere in the EA for single sex exceptions or any of the others, it's only here in the stat code and in non-statutory guidance based on the code.

It's not a matter of interpreting it correctly, it's a matter of getting rid of it altogether and getting back to what the EA actually says.

tabbycatstripy · 02/05/2022 15:12

‘It's not a matter of interpreting it correctly, it's a matter of getting rid of it altogether and getting back to what the EA actually says.’

Yes, the advice is wrong.

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