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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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A Detailed Look At “The Family Sex Show”

333 replies

Sazzasez · 15/04/2022 19:03

Just for clarity & in case anyone jumps at the chance to call me a right-winger bent on denying women reproductive rights: I’m a socialist agnostic who has protested anti-abortionists.

And I know a child safeguarding hazard when I see one.

Performances planned in Bath, Bristol and Norwich.

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/nope?s=r

OP posts:
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7
DomesticatedZombie · 15/04/2022 22:05

Using pleasure as a vehicle for consent.

What is this supposed to mean?

That's about the creepiest thing I've read in a while.

IsabelaMadrigal · 15/04/2022 22:16

Smegma Envy (not envy)

Terfydactyl · 15/04/2022 22:44

@FOJN

We clearly cannot start inspecting people's hard drives on the basis they have poor safeguarding knowledge but there is a pattern here.

Time and time again we see someone who has been associated, either directly or peripherally, with a campaign or project promoting a queer agenda is arrested for offences against children.

Do they initiate the projects/campaigns to create opportunity? Are they attracted to the projected because they recognise opportunity. Or are there so many abusers out there that their involvement is just a coincidence?

I do wonder if when someone high profile starts banging their drum on "pick a subject" that their hard drives are in fact looked at?

There seems to be quite a lot of men spouting about gender being the "right thing to do" then being charged with cse of some kind.
Often jailed even. I wonder if someone is taking advantage of this entire shit storm?

MangyInseam · 15/04/2022 22:53

@DomesticatedZombie

Using pleasure as a vehicle for consent.

What is this supposed to mean?

That's about the creepiest thing I've read in a while.

Maybe that it is trying to tell the audience that they should only consent to what they like?

Or if they like more they can consent more and that is good?

Or maybe that if they enjoy the play they will learn more about consent?

It really is not very clear. But I think the Mary Harrington article linked above might have the idea - it's about a sense that children need to be educated about sex to make good use of their freedom.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 15/04/2022 22:54

@Absurdle

Using pleasure as a vehicle for consent.

Target audience: 5 and up.

In plain sight or what? I can’t believe that slogan.

I've read before that predators use "I just want to make you feel good" to coax children out of resistance, and that is exactly what comes to mind when I read that line.
SolasAnla · 15/04/2022 23:11

@PonyPatter44

I don't think the cast and crew are wrong 'uns, necessarily, but I suspect they are useful idiots.
Nope.

I judge them to be useful idiot's and wrong 'uns. They decided their job included talking at 5 year olds about sex. How many of them would get up on stage and explain to a 5 year old that Santa Clause was not real? Or how to butcher and cook a chicken? Yet they collectively decided to make acts of human reproduction and other sexual acts a topic for 5 year olds.
Western children have all grown up going to the movies and know about age appropiate content. That's the industry they chose to work in.

rabbitwoman · 15/04/2022 23:48

From the website, the actors that have devised and produced and will perform this show seem to be pretty young? Not children, but in their 20s?

I am really really worried about who taught them that this was okay? Who taught them that they didn't need to worry about safeguarding? Who is telling them 5 year old need to know about any of this stuff and better still, they need to learn it from naked strangers?

Where did they get their degrees from?

dropthevipers · 16/04/2022 00:00

@rabbitwoman

From the website, the actors that have devised and produced and will perform this show seem to be pretty young? Not children, but in their 20s?

I am really really worried about who taught them that this was okay? Who taught them that they didn't need to worry about safeguarding? Who is telling them 5 year old need to know about any of this stuff and better still, they need to learn it from naked strangers?

Where did they get their degrees from?

You cannot teach these people anything, and nor do you need to because as we know, the young already know everything. I would bet the farm they are all Koolaid drinkers though.
rabbitwoman · 16/04/2022 00:04

dropthevipers - we always knew the young thought they knew everything but what is different now is the parents who agree with them.....

dropthevipers · 16/04/2022 00:06

@rabbitwoman

dropthevipers - we always knew the young thought they knew everything but what is different now is the parents who agree with them.....
No they dont, they are just scared of them. This is what happens when you want to be their friends rather than their parents.
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 16/04/2022 02:11

Here are some more useful idiots in Denmark and America.

This is from 2020, in the New York Times.

COPENHAGEN — “OK, children, does anyone have a question?” the TV show’s host, Jannik Schow, asked. Only a few in the audience of 11- to 13-year-olds raised their hands. “Remember, you can’t do anything wrong,” he said. “There are no bad questions.”

You can’t blame the children if their thoughts were elsewhere. On a stage before them in a heated studio in Copenhagen stood five adults in bathrobes. There was a brief moment of silence, as faces turned serious. Having discussed it for days before in school, the children knew what was coming next. Mr. Schow gave a little nod, and the adults cast off their robes.

Facing the children, and the cameras, they stood completely naked, like statues, with their hands and arms folded behind their backs.

And so began a recording of the latest episode of an award-winning Danish children’s program, “Ultra Strips Down,” which is shown on Ultra, the on-demand children’s channel of the national broadcaster, DR. The topic today: skin and hair.

The show’s producers say the program is meant as an educational tool to fight body shaming and encourage body positivity. And so first reluctantly, later enthusiastically, the children from the Orestad School in Copenhagen asked the adults questions like: “At what age did you grow hair on the lower part of your body?” “Do you consider removing your tattoos?” “Are you pleased with your private parts?”

One of the adults, Martin, answered that he had never had “negative thoughts” about his private parts. Another adult, also named Martin, admitted that when he was young he had worried about size. “But the relationship with myself has changed over time,” he said.

With serious looks on their faces, the children nodded.

The program is now in its second season, and while perhaps a shock to non-Danes, it is highly popular in Denmark. Recently, however, a leading member of the right-wing Danish People’s Party, Peter Skaarup, said he found “Ultra Strips Down” to be “depraving our children.”

“It is far too early for children” to start with male and female genitalia, he told B.T., a Danish tabloid. At that age, he said, they “already have many things running around in their heads.”

“They have to learn it at the right time,” he added, saying this information should be presented by parents or schools “so that it is not delivered in this vulgar way, as the children’s channel does.”

For the most part, though, Danes have long been comfortable with nudity, at public beaches, for instance.

Mr. Schow, 29, who helped develop the concept of the show after a producer came up with the idea, said the point was also to counter the daily bombardment of young people with images of perfect — unrealistic — bodies. The adults are not actors, but volunteers.

“Perhaps some people are like, ‘Oh, my God, they are combining nakedness and kids,’” Mr. Schow said. “But this has nothing to do with sex, it’s about seeing the body as natural, the way kids do.”

Many Danes believe children should not be shielded from the realities of life, giving them a lot of unsupervised time to play and explore, even if they might hurt themselves.

Continues: www.nytimes.com/2020/09/18/world/europe/denmark-children-nudity-sex-education.html

Some may be wondering what kind of adult would volunteer to get undressed in front of a throng of 11-13 year olds.

Well...

Fast-forward to 2021

Controversy continues to surround a Danish television series in which school-age children in the audience are being exposed to nude adults allegedly to “teach” the children about the human body. The program, entitled “Ultra throws away the clothes”, has caused outrage among child-protection groups in Denmark as well as abroad. Yet, now it has been revealed that one of their adult “models” is a known pedophile who has been convicted by a court for possessing images of child abuse.

The Danish publically-funded broadcaster DR, which produces the show, hasremovedan episode from its archive in which the 41-year-old participant stripped in front of an audience of 11 to 13-year-old schoolchildren. The middle-aged man was convicted at a court in Glostrup of sexually abusing a child and of possessing over 3,000 child pornographic images and videos. He was handed a nine-month prison sentence for the crime.

The much criticized program’s declared aim is to “counter body shaming and encourage body positivity”. Naked participants pose in front of pre-pubescent children, who can ask them questions about their body. Although it aims to present a different, arguably more realistic, picture about the human body as compared to images photoshopped to perfection seen in social media, none of the TV programs producers could answer why they felt the need to strip their models completely and show their genitals too. Such images are, after all, banned from most social media and only appear in sources that are restricted to adult audiences.

The broadcaster DR became aware of the fact that one of their participants was a pedophile and had silently removed the episode from their website without any explanation. They have declined any journalists’ questions regarding this matter, and only released a statement according to which children and participants have been separated before and during filming and thus no harm could have come to the children.

Continues: rmx.news/article/award-winning-danish-children-s-program-participant-turns-out-to-be-a-pedophile/

I am very, very shocked about this totally unexpected development.

MarshmallowSwede · 16/04/2022 05:41

I’ve volunteered with rape victims and children of sexual abuse for many years.

Sexualization and breaking down of barriers for the child is a tactic of groomers. Exposing a child to sexual themes, nudity, and explains it all away as “normal and natural” is a way to break down the boundaries of a child.

Normal socialization of children will in once age appropriate discussions of sex. You would not explain sex the same way to a 5 yr old as you would a 15 yr old for example.

This entire show is a checklist for grooming behavior. Premature and precocious sexuality is a red flag that a child is being sexually abused.

It is in no way shape or form appropriate for simulated sex to be shown to children, for masturbation to be explained and or demonstrated to children.

Parents need to ask themselves why all this push to sexualization children prematurely?
What is the end goal?

If groomers can break down boundaries and get us to believe children have kinks, then the next is going to be saying there is no need to have age if consent laws and y are capable of having sex with adults.

This is way more sinister than a bunch of useful idiots trying to look inclusive. This is grooming behavior meant to make your children ok with inappropriate sexual behaviour of adults directed towards them.

Be aware and be vigilant.

Sazzasez · 16/04/2022 07:13

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

Yeah the first part of that sounded ok: 11-13 year olds: sensible age (certainly better than five +); child-led in that they get to ask the questions and decide what they want to know... But as I read. I was thinking “so what do the adults get out of it?”
And then I read the second part.

OP posts:
tabbycatstripy · 16/04/2022 07:18

In principle, 11-13 year olds seeing a naked human body isn’t necessarily a concern. In a sex ed lesson you would show images of naked female and male bodies. But the point is they would be completely unsexualised - no seedy person with an agenda wanting to talk to kids. You’d just be saying as the teacher, “This is what the mature body can look like.” Nothing wrong with young adults knowing that at all.

But not at 5. Not in conjunction with teaching them about pegging or whatever these sleazy people are doing.

FOJN · 16/04/2022 07:57

I wonder if someone is taking advantage of this entire shit storm?

Taking advantage or engineering?

MintyMoocow · 16/04/2022 08:08

It all sounds appalling, but no-one with half an ounce is sense is going to expose their children to this. Any child whose parent thinks this is a good idea, is presumably immersed in this crap at some level anyway, so this one show is not going to make a huge difference.
I think that what we have here is a bunch of juvenile, self-important narcissists showing off. The worst thing we can do is give them publicity, best just to ignore them.
If people start protesting publicly or picketing the show, these people are just going to get the attention they want.
Just let it die, because it will.

NotBadConsidering · 16/04/2022 08:16

Ah, Denmark, the country and same broadcaster that gave us John Dillermand, a children’s tv show about a man and his very long penis Hmm.

AssignedBlobbyAtBirth · 16/04/2022 09:53

The NSPCC are lost and are a disgrace. Wanking, rubber man was shocking and the response even worse
They had the nice clear pants campaign which, I believe, has now been changed to 'anything that makes the child feel uncomfortable' putting the onus onto the child to identify their own abuse. Be a good enough groomer and you are good to goHmm
It reminds me of the awful Warwickshire sex Ed programme that defined consent as 'negotiating sex'. Whatever happened to no means no and whose interests are being centered here?

ResisterRex · 16/04/2022 10:02

I went back into various things NSPCC last night. There was this, where they said "consent means actively saying yes":

mobile.twitter.com/LilyLilyMaynard/status/1285982284353540099

They deleted it but it was screen grabbed.

There was also this, involving Barnardo's, the Children's Society, National Children's Bureau and the NSPCC:

www.barnardos.org.uk/news/joint-statement-barnardos-nspcc-national-childrens-bureau-and-childrens-society-about-gender

THEY HAVE ONE JOB.

PonyPatter44 · 16/04/2022 10:05

If groomers can break down boundaries and get us to believe children have kinks, then the next is going to be saying there is no need to have age if consent laws and y are capable of having sex with adults.

That is exactly it. Spot on, @MarshmallowSwede

DomesticatedZombie · 16/04/2022 10:14

Nudity is not really the issue. It's the title, context, language and specific aims.

theDudesmummy · 16/04/2022 10:42

With apologies for those who read this on the other thread:

On the issue of the MSPCC's apparent stance that the child being "uncomfortable" is any guidance as to whether abuse is taking place, I am going to report what I said on the first thread on this piece of societal grooming show, as I think it is hugely important:

The issue of children being told to resist something which feels "uncomfortable" is a highly problematic one, I did not realise this is the NSPCC's official line, as it is based on a very incorrect premise and places the responsibility for reacting against the abuse on the survivor rather than those around them, including wider society, which is where the responsibility should lie.

Probably at least half of the survivors I speak to did not recognise the abuse as "abuse" at the time, certainly not at the start, and probably half of those ones would not have described themselves then, or even later, as having felt "uncomfortable" about the abuse.

It might be just part of your normal world, or dressed up as affection or love, framed as education or discipline, or religion (God wants you to do this), even actively sought by you as positive attention or being treated as a friend, confidente or partner. People may not even recognise it as abusive for many years even into late adulthood. This does not make it less abusive, or damaging.

Teaching about sex and abuse should never place the onus on the child to set the boundaries. Something does not have to be "uncomfortable" at the time to be abusive. This is why the erosion of boundaries needs to be recognised by the adults and the authorities, and why this stage show is part of a very dangerous trend. Five-year-olds are laughing at the funny naked man, or the simulated sex (or the ranbow dildo butt monkey), so how can it possible be dangerous? Just teach them to say no, or to report it, if they dont find something "plesaurable" and then we're all good, right?

This is terribly terribly wrong and I am getting very angry on behalf of all the survivors, past and (sadly) future.

Clymene · 16/04/2022 10:49

@theDudesmummy

The screenshot is from the NSPCC's Speak Out Stay Safe campaign. People picked up on your point a couple of years ago, the nspcc were due to come on here and do a webchat and they cancelled last minute.

But have they changed their wording? No. The very organisation which is supposed to be the hub of protecting children from abuse does not appear to understand how abusers work.

We are lost.

A Detailed Look At “The Family Sex Show”
Organictangerine · 16/04/2022 10:50

I really feel an open letter signed by as many professionals as possible (teachers, psychiatrists, social workers etc) to the Arts Council as to why this show is not only dangerous but counterproductive, would be the best way of stopping it. Does anyone know a person who might be interested in writing such a letter?

theDudesmummy · 16/04/2022 11:18

The whole slogan Speak Out Stay Safe is so wrong. So these who do not stay safe are to blame because they did not/could not speak out?

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