Girls are just as strong as boys?

[MillicentBystander101]

My son came out of school today and said his DT teacher gave them a stern talking to about sexism... sounded great, initially, until he said she told them girls and women are just as strong as boys and men, and that it is sexist to say otherwise. That you would definitely be just as hurt whether a girl hits you, or a boy.

I asked his thoughts and he said she is obviously wrong, and he won't be surprised if that's now used as an excuse by some of the boys to hit girls.

He then proudly told me he put a big cross through the word gender, replaced it with sex and underlined it several times. The same teacher told me in parents evening tonight, that he is doing really well in her class but was a little cheeky today 🙈 She didn't elaborate, but that's probably what she was talking about. He's year 8, just for context, so they're at an age, I think, where it does matter.

Not much point to this, other than me voicing my frustration here, rather than firing off an angry email to the school.

[thirdfiddle]

Not tag or touch rugby, grabbing by the waist and tackling to the ground.

[trancepants]

@KevinTheKoala

Is it possible that she meant that it is sexist to assume ALL men are stronger than ALL women? Because on average men are stronger than women but obviously a woman who trains at the gym multiple times a week and eats well is likely to be stronger than a man who lives on a small amount of junk food and spends most of his time in front of a computer - that woman would also likely need a higher calorie intake than the man would to maintain their body. I might just be overthinking it though and the teacher actually did think what she was saying was right.

Tbh, I think this is a dangerous line if thought. I'm extremely fit and strong. I work out for an average of 3 hours a day. I can do pull-ups from a dead hang. Have no issue with getting down on the ground and banging out 50-80 proper form push-ups. I can lift very heavy weights easily. I have good strength levels at end range motion, meaning my strength is highly functional. I have high level endurance and very high level ultra endurance fitness. I have trained in Krav Maga and know how to maximise the strength of my blows and where to hit to cause the most pain to an attacker.

My over-weight, deeply unfit, hadn't exercised in a decade, alcoholic XH, while recovering from acute live failure and so drunk he could barely stand, was more than able to overpower me and choke me into semi-consciousness. Minutes before he passed out from inebriation.

It genuinely makes no difference how fit and strong we are. When it comes to raw strength women live in a world populated by super-powered beings. If even the most slovenly of them wants to overpower even the strongest of us, they probably will. We might get lucky, I have genuinely knocked men off their feet in training. But we should never, ever, ever engage with a man who wants to hurt us if we have any other option.

[ApprenticeCatSlave]

@thirdfiddle

Not tag or touch rugby, grabbing by the waist and tackling to the ground.

In Y8 that sounds dangerous.

Perhaps parents don't know though - I only know about mixed lessons as my kid tell me. We were told when shown round school for PFB that they were seperated for PE but like many things that changed with no warning or input from parents.

Thinking back when they spoke to us about DD1 it was her who said it was a boy completely accidenatlly and he was very mortified - then they had to deal with a filming situation - it was skipped past it was a mixed PE lesson though we did ask a few questions about it.

[334bu]

one of the boys 6 ft plus miss judge something and went careering into her at some speed -leaving her on the floor unable to get up. PE staff were apparently visibly shocked and very upset - complete accident and she avoided serious damage

Very good point. I had forgotten just how clumsy my son was at that age and how totally unaware of his own strength. These boys are still coming to terms with the vast changes occurring in their bodies and are not totally in control of them..

[MillicentBystander101]

An arm wrestle challenge made me laugh 🤣 He's slightly shorter than a lot in his year and not particularly sporty, but he has been able to over power me during a meltdown since he was about 10. He knows that, and has worked really hard on calming techniques when he gets angry.

When I was at school (many years ago) mixed sex rugby was played with a coloured flag tucked into the top of your shorts which was pulled out by someone on the opposite team. You then gave them the ball. Not sure if that's how they do it now as they are separated at his school for pe.

[KevinTheKoala]

@trancepants no of course not, I wasn't thinking in terms of violence though - more in terms of how much you can carry/how many calories an individual might need etc. For instance at work I can carry a heavier box more comfortably than one of my male colleagues, I don't doubt that he would be able to overpower me in a fight if he wanted to though.

[MillicentBystander101]

@trancepants That really does just put it into perspective, and I'm sorry that happened to you.

[andyoldlabour]

OP, your DS is brilliant. Maybe he could ask his teacher why the US women's football team were beaten by an U15 boys team?

www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4389760/USA-women-s-team-suffer-5-2-loss-FC-Dallas-U-15-boys.html

[G5000]

Because the reason I needed someone to carry the books was because I was not strong enough, so why would I ask a girl, who also would not be strong enough, I would ask a boy

Saying that on average, males are stronger than females is of course just a fact. But in your example you are assuming that first, you are stronger than all other females in the room (no point in asking girls, as you say). And second, that all boys in this particular class are stronger than any of the girls.

[trancepants]

[quote KevinTheKoala]@trancepants no of course not, I wasn't thinking in terms of violence though - more in terms of how much you can carry/how many calories an individual might need etc. For instance at work I can carry a heavier box more comfortably than one of my male colleagues, I don't doubt that he would be able to overpower me in a fight if he wanted to though.[/quote]
In that case, absolutely. A fitter woman may well managed that type of work better than a less able man. Because technique and fitness matters. An unfit man may well be able to just bend down and pick up a much heavier weight. But won't necessarily be able to carry it for any distance and just absolutely not able to do the same task repeatedly due to poor endurance.

But in a violent incident, they only need a few moments of strength. The same goes for sport. I trained a few times in a contact sport with a group of men. I was much fitter than nearly all of them. More skilled than quite a few of them. But I just couldn't play with them because a knock or jostle from them could have severely injured me. It's a pity because it's a sport I really enjoy and there is no women's league. But I both felt unsafe playing with them. And I felt like I was preventing some of them from being able to commit to the game like they would because they were worried about hurting me.

[MiddlesexGirl]

Maybe your DS could ask his teacher about recruitment to the Royal Marines.

[Mymapuddlington]

He could take in the Olympics data showing the difference in results between the men’s competitions and the women’s.

[NecessaryScene]

Yes, if something's heavy enough that you really believe only a boy could lift it, you probably shouldn't be asking one child to lift it, and asking two to do it. Or getting an adult to do it...

If it's light enough that a boy or girl could do it, but it would be easier for a boy, you still shouldn't rule out a girl from doing it.

So I think it probably was an example of bad practice, just not for the reasons given.

And in a different scenario, where maybe you do have a bunch of serious work needing doing, and need to split it out among a limited number of people, it's not terribly sensible to put the weaker people on the heavier tasks, so I wouldn't expect the heavy manual work to be done by females on the whole. But again, I don't see that situation occurring in schools... And I still wouldn't rule out any females doing those roles.

[MillicentBystander101]

@andyoldlabour We was actually talking about that this morning, and Serena Williams. For a 12 year old boy, he takes women's rights and fairness quite seriously, and to be fair, he hasn't got it wrong very often.

It used to drive me mad how stubborn he can be and how everything I said was questioned by him. I'm now quite grateful for it, encourage it even 😄

[Aroundtheworldin80moves]

Rugby is usually split after 12 in out of school teams.
(My 10yo plays U11s with the boys. But she can also train with the girls team, but is to young to play competitively with them. In the mixed team, they have to be careful as shes more likely to get injured than the boys as shes lighter...)

[WouldBeGood]

Good on your DS.

It’s rubbish. I’m a big strong woman who does weight training. Still had to get my older, unfit DP to lift my suitcase up onto the luggage rack.

DS is13 and also stronger.

[ancientgran]

@FemaleAndLearning

Ancientgran
Absolutely agree, no hitting is acceptable. When I see women hitting men on TV it really annoys me and I always state to my girls that it is not acceptable to hit. Even Hermione punching Malfoy was not on. Was that in the book too or just the film?

I think I'm a bit sensitised to it as exDIL punched my son in the face when he had baby in his arms and toddler on his lap. She thought it didn't matter because he's a man.

[ancientgran]

@MillicentBystander101

An arm wrestle challenge made me laugh 🤣 He's slightly shorter than a lot in his year and not particularly sporty, but he has been able to over power me during a meltdown since he was about 10. He knows that, and has worked really hard on calming techniques when he gets angry.

When I was at school (many years ago) mixed sex rugby was played with a coloured flag tucked into the top of your shorts which was pulled out by someone on the opposite team. You then gave them the ball. Not sure if that's how they do it now as they are separated at his school for pe.

The overpowering you is a bit concerning. At his age he shouldn't be doing that, neither should a girl. All very well to talk the talk, he needs to walk the walk as well.

[MillicentBystander101]

I know what you're saying but, as I have mentioned, he has tourettes and adhd. When he was younger, he really found it hard to control his emotions. That comes with maturity and support for any child. It's harder for a child with additional needs, and actually, I can't discredit him for the hard work he has put in.

He has never hit me, but restraining him to stop him breaking something or hurting himself became a whole lot harder when he was 10.

As for walking the walk, I have 0 concerns. He is a whole lot more productive on that front than some adults I know. He does back up his words, and he does it even when he feels he's standing alone in his opinion. Meltdowns due to a disability doesn't make him a bad person.

[ancientgran]

Oh well if you think him overpowering you is OK I guess that's OK then. Hope he doesn't try it with anyone else.

[AssassinatedBeauty]

@ancientgran

Oh well if you think him overpowering you is OK I guess that's OK then. Hope he doesn't try it with anyone else.

Did you read the OPs very reasonable response?? Nowhere does she say it's acceptable for her DS to overpower her, just the simple fact that he can. In fact, the OP has explained very clearly the work she and her DS have done to help him manage his emotions so it doesn't get that far.

[334bu]

Could we go back to question posed that girls are as strong as boys in Year 9? This is obviously not true as most of the boys will have started puberty.

[MillicentBystander101]

Thanks @AssassinatedBeauty

Ds asked about doing a strength experiment based on their discussion yesterday. They're going to try and do something at the end of next week before half term. Should be fun and educational for them.