Girls are just as strong as boys?

[MillicentBystander101]

My son came out of school today and said his DT teacher gave them a stern talking to about sexism... sounded great, initially, until he said she told them girls and women are just as strong as boys and men, and that it is sexist to say otherwise. That you would definitely be just as hurt whether a girl hits you, or a boy.

I asked his thoughts and he said she is obviously wrong, and he won't be surprised if that's now used as an excuse by some of the boys to hit girls.

He then proudly told me he put a big cross through the word gender, replaced it with sex and underlined it several times. The same teacher told me in parents evening tonight, that he is doing really well in her class but was a little cheeky today 🙈 She didn't elaborate, but that's probably what she was talking about. He's year 8, just for context, so they're at an age, I think, where it does matter.

Not much point to this, other than me voicing my frustration here, rather than firing off an angry email to the school.

[MillicentBystander101]

Thanks for the link

[ErrolTheDragon]

@thirdfiddle

It's sexist to say girls are as strong as boys - because it means you have the same expectations of both, and the girls will inevitably fall short.

It's also sexist to assume any particular individual boy is stronger than any particular individual girl, or to always ask boys if you want e.g. tables shifting in class.

This sums it up really.

Women are statistically not as strong as men - there's a distinct bimodal distribution. But there's an overlap so some women are stronger than some men.

It's not exactly hard to grasp.

[MillicentBystander101]

Oh... well you've just crushed the bit of hope I had, thank you 🤣

[Marelle]

Testosterone makes people stronger by encouraging them to grow bigger muscles. It also gives them a higher red blood cell count, which means oxygen gets delivered efficiently for exercise. On average men have higher levels of testosterone than women, so they tend to be taller, broader, fitter and more muscular. I don’t understand why some people want to deny that a testosterone has this effect on the human body? Ot maybe they’re so stupid that they don’t realise?

[ErrolTheDragon]

While this is true it was quite dangerous not to acknowledge boys were stronger than girls, especially when it came to sports, I tend to think it would be better not to say 'I need a strong boy to carry these books' but rather, 'I need someone strong enough to carry these books'.

[rabbitwoman]

I conceed, errol, but also advise I have done neither..... I just said that it would not be sexist to do so because boys are stronger....

I usually insist the kid who was naughty, or late, help me carry the books 😂😂

[TableFlowerss]

If you had to pick out 100 random 16 year old boys and 100 girls, I’d bet my house in the fact, overall the boys would be stronger.

Everyone knows the average male is stronger and bigger and more powerful than the average female.

Just tell him to smile at teacher. He knows the score 😉

[Hattie765]

I ♥️ YOUR SON

[MillicentBystander101]

I did tell him its sometimes easier to just smile and get on with your day. He's not easily manipulated, so I'm grateful for that!

@Hattie765 😄 He makes me very proud and very stressed, in equal measures!

[Namenic]

OP - that is a terrible line for the school to take! It is absolutely wrong of them not to take action for a girl hitting a boy (or another girl). It’s not silliness, it’s unwanted force, particularly when done in a nasty way - it can start fights where multiple people get hurt. All violence should be dealt with.

Well done to your DS for being controlled and calm. The message the school is sending out is terrible. Just because violence is done by a woman doesn’t make it acceptable.

[MillicentBystander101]

I'm with you on that. However, other than the SENCO who is brilliant, there isn't many at that school who seem to follow their zero tolerance policy. You'd think I'm exaggerating if I listed all the issues we've had. The latest being, this week, having trousers pulled down whilst waiting in line (probably just completely outed myself)

I think I will send an email tomorrow and include that link pp posted. I think it's more important that it isn't repeated to another class.

[NecessaryScene]

Before puberty, yes, strength is about the same; after puberty, no, with some outlying exceptions of very slight men and women with very strong athletic builds, men are stronger.

Even so, lots of people underestimate the pre-puberty differences.

Partly because there is a statistical anomaly where girls get closer to boys around the ages 9-10 because girls start developing earlier, so more of them are developmentally ahead.

In that brief age interval where so many girls are bigger than boys, yes, it's close. So if you start your charts around that age, it looks like you're starting from almost no gap.

But at younger ages, really before any puberty, there's a significant gap.

[TheReluctantPhoenix]

If you camevs on this board years ago (pre trans), the vast majority would have insisted girls were as strong as boys.

I remember someone telling me off for saying the Williams sisters would not even be in the top 200 mens’ players (they both subsequently got hammered by the number 250

Most people care less about truth than making an argument to suit their view.

[PurgatoryOfPotholes]

So, the users have become more informed? That's a good thing.

It may mean MNers have wrestled (see wot I did there) with this, and realised that an insistence that girls were as strong as boys betrayed an internalised, patriarchal conviction that worth=physical strength.

The strongest men can lift more than the strongest women can. And that's okay. My paltry personal best in the deadlift doesn't mean I am worth less as a person than men of my age and fitness, any more than their inability to perform feats limited to female bodies makes them worth less as people.

[EdgeOfACoin]

@TheReluctantPhoenix

If you camevs on this board years ago (pre trans), the vast majority would have insisted girls were as strong as boys.

I remember someone telling me off for saying the Williams sisters would not even be in the top 200 mens’ players (they both subsequently got hammered by the number 250

Most people care less about truth than making an argument to suit their view.

Possibly, TheReluctantPhoenix. I wasn't on the board years ago. Perhaps both sides have had to confront biological reality?

I watched The Battle of the Sexes a few years ago, about Billie-Jean King defeating Bobby Riggs in a game of tennis. What struck me was just how hard King had to train to beat an older, out of shape bloke. Clearly, if he had put in a fraction of the training King had, he would have beaten her.

For an inspirational story, it was rather depressing.

[Fucket]

You see I think this is a misconception that has built up in lots of minds of people of my age (school in the 90s). We were told women were equal to men, we could do anything a man can do.

We come across misconceptions all the time when teaching science. The most common one being that light and sound are types of energy. Actually have to teach it as energy transfers. I’ve had year 11 boys think girls urinate out of their vagina.

I believe this misconception about equal strength between the sexes has been allowed to flourish and become dangerous because of well meaning intentions to create a more equal society for women.

These misconceptions need to be corrected in an appropriate manner. From a science point of view I’d talk about muscle mass, testosterone, size of men compared to women etc and draw analogies with the animal kingdom. Male mammals are often bigger and stronger, we recognise that. Apply the logic to humans too.

[Nuffaluff]

So I began to say that was fine. Because the reason I needed someone to carry the books was because I was not strong enough, so why would I ask a girl, who also would not be strong enough, I would ask a boy....
I am strong enough to carry some books ( I am female, not a bodybuilder). Just a thought, you could ask two girls to help.

[Tlollj]

It’s because for years we were told men and women/ boys and girls are the same. Instead of different but equal.

[EdgeOfACoin]

I also remember the boys at our school challenging the girls to a game of netball when we were about 10 or 11.

The boys beat us 2-0.

I was genuinely shocked, because we had rather been fed a line that girls were just as strong and fast as boys. Every TV show at the time would have shown the girls winning.

[FindTheTruth]

@Hattie765

I ♥️ YOUR SON

I love him too.

OP maybe point the teacher to Dr Emma Hilton videos for the facts!

[TheReluctantPhoenix]

@Fucket,

Light and sound are types of energy (arguably), it is just that the IOP have argued that, at GCSE level, using transfers is a better way of teaching it, as it leads to an intuitive understanding of work.

Otherwise, what has happened to the energy of a dead star as its light is travelling through empty space but before the photons have hit your eye?

[rabbitwoman]

@Nuffaluff

So I began to say that was fine. Because the reason I needed someone to carry the books was because I was not strong enough, so why would I ask a girl, who also would not be strong enough, I would ask a boy....
I am strong enough to carry some books ( I am female, not a bodybuilder). Just a thought, you could ask two girls to help.

Well, I am not strong enough to carry 25 text books up two flights of stairs, also I am not quite big enough to see over the top, and yes, I could ask two girls, I could make a point of asking two girls, rather than a boy or two boys or the late kid...

However, it was a question on a training day to demonstrate that we should never imply that boys are stronger than girls and when I pointed out that boys are, in fact, stronger than girls I got shouted down for it.

Don't worry about my books. They mostly use tablets these days anyway!!!

[ThirdElephant]

Well, girls and boys are pretty much on a par physically until they hit late primary age, which is why many primary schools don't segregate by sex in P.E and sports days. Extrapolating that to women and men/older children doesn't work though.

Maybe send an email and query it?

[lightand]

@Tlollj

It’s because for years we were told men and women/ boys and girls are the same. Instead of different but equal.

Misinformation back then too.

What bothers me is that so many believe everything they are taught. Ludicrous.

[TheReluctantPhoenix]

‘These misconceptions need to be corrected in an appropriate manner. From a science point of view I’d talk about muscle mass, testosterone, size of men compared to women etc and draw analogies with the animal kingdom. Male mammals are often bigger and stronger, we recognise that. Apply the logic to humans too.’

I am a big believer in animal models, too, but I don’t think that factual reality should only be accepted when it suits an argument.

There were recently lots of threads about ‘male aggression’. When I suggested that testosterone played a major role in this (aggravated by other factors, not testosterone alone), people had no interest and kept on about there being a magical ‘solution’ that, somehow, men should apply.

There were a lot of straw men argued against, but the factual reality is that testosterone is strongly correlated to aggression (yes, there is an element of chicken and egg, in that aggression causes rises in testosterone, but this is the sub plot, not the main event).

I don’t think you can say biological reality is important when it suits your argument but irrelevant when it does not.