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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

'Vichy feminism'

43 replies

secular111 · 17/09/2021 12:56

I've seen this term being increasingly employed on SM. In August, glinner included the term in the title for a post;

A new low for Vichy Feminism

'Vichy Feminism' though has no definition. It's use perhaps gives away its meaning; Vichy Feminism might otherwise be known as 'Collaborator Feminism' where the self-identified feminist collaborates with the oppression of women and girls. Some individuals who profess to practice 'Intersectional Feminism' may also be regarded as collaborators.

That though is just my interpretation. As mentioned, there's no formal definition of 'Vichy Feminism'.

The 'Vichy' of course refers to the Vichy government established by Chief of State Marshal Philippe Pétain at the fall of France in WWII, leaving the Free French to fight for the Allies, whilst the Vichy government and its resources were dedicated to collaboration with the Nazi's. That collaboration included helping deport 75,721 Jewish refugees and French citizens to Nazi death camps. In 1942 the Nazi's took more direct control of the Vichy 'Free Zone', with Prime Minister Pierre Laval' government providing aid to them. Laval was executed at the end of the War.

There have been various efforts to apply terms to describe 'feminists' who collaborate in the oppression of women and girls, perhaps through their opposition to single-sex safe spaces, their promotion of efforts to erase the term 'woman', their adoption of anti-science perspectives, efforts to restrict or prevent free expression, attempts to associate non-compliant women with fascism or far-right interest. 'Handmaidens' - a term lifted from Margaret Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale (1985) is often used. I don't reckon it is accurate; the handmaids in Atwood's novel are unwilling participants in the regime Atwood envisioned. A better term might be 'Aunties' , in honour of the character Aunt Lydia, who is a Collaborator with the misogynistic & homophobic Gilead regime.

Another term regularly applied to collaborating/collaborators is 'Quisling' - a term garnered from Norwegian war-time leader Vidkun Quisling, who headed a domestic Nazi collaborationist regime during World War II. I've not seen the term used in concert with feminism - such as 'Quisling Feminism', but it might gain traction in-the-future.

As mentioned before, 'Vichy Feminism' is a term for those who identify as feminists but willingly assist in collaborating in the oppression of women and girls.

Examples of Vichy Feminism abound. In the UK alone, we could perhaps consider the Scottish First Minister, who has expressed the claim that she is 'feminist to her fingertips' to be a Vichy Feminist. The Conservative MP for Wolverhampton North and Chair of the Women and Equalities Select Committee, Maria Miller might also be identified as a Vichy Feminist.

Whether the term reaches mainstream usage is yet-to-be-seen.

OP posts:
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 25/09/2021 03:29

@Wrongsideofhistorymyarse

Caitlin Moran described Katie Price as 'Vichy France with tits' in her book 'How to be a woman' in 2011.
Well, with an attitude like that towards other women, no wonder Moran has gone on to be a complete disappointment.

Katie Price was eighteen years old when she went into page 3 modelling. What a sickening attitude to have towards a young woman.

KimikosNightmare · 25/09/2021 03:33

@NiceGerbil

No thanks.

This current trend of labelling everything, deciding who gets the label, and then using the term to denigrate them as a group.

It's counter productive, assumes if someone says X they must also be a b and c.

It's simplistic and quite frankly immature.

It reminds me of the terms white feminists, Karens, and a whole load more.

People are individuals and when they say something others disagree with, then the others should challenge them.

Ditto orgs, political statements etc.

Plus I'm no doubt thick. But Vichy when I read it, it's a brand of skincare products!

All very good points.
thinkingaboutLangCleg · 25/09/2021 06:02

Vichy or Quisling are very good descriptions of women who call themselves feminist but support the TRA ideology. Atwood’s handmaids were slaves, they didn’t have any choice.

It is not calling people Nazis, it’s (correctly) calling them collaborators. Many collaborators probably didn’t like Nazi ideology, they were just looking out for their own interests. I’d guess that most collaborators were scared to resist.

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 25/09/2021 06:05

To be more exact, ‘Vichy feminism’ is the best description of the ideology, and less personal than Quisling.

In the 70s we called such people Trusties, like the favoured people in prison.

KimikosNightmare · 25/09/2021 07:57

@thinkingaboutLangCleg

Vichy or Quisling are very good descriptions of women who call themselves feminist but support the TRA ideology. Atwood’s handmaids were slaves, they didn’t have any choice.

It is not calling people Nazis, it’s (correctly) calling them collaborators. Many collaborators probably didn’t like Nazi ideology, they were just looking out for their own interests. I’d guess that most collaborators were scared to resist.

Oh well that's all right then- not calling them Nazis, just Nazi collaborators.

Your post just confirms my view that terms arising from WWII should be left there.

As Nice Gerbil said
Surely a massive issue at the moment is-

Give a group you don't agree with a special name
Bunch a load of people under that name
Assume that all their views are awful
Don't ever listen to anything they say.

Thelnebriati · 25/09/2021 12:50

On the other hand, it is ok not to agree with an individual or group who do awful things.

JellySlice · 25/09/2021 13:03

Women who support men to invade, colonise or control women's spaces are quislings, in just the same way as those invading, colonising or controlling men are wankers.

Doomscrolling · 25/09/2021 13:19

I think the reason it appeals is because the so-called intersectional feminism has a very 1984 ‘Do It To Julia’ vibe - threatened with an awful thing (erasure of rights and language), some choose to collude with the oppression of some of their cohort in order to buy themselves an easier time.

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 25/09/2021 16:11

Oh well that's all right then- not calling them Nazis, just Nazi collaborators.

Not Nazi collaborators but collaborators with an invader.

When men claim the 'right' to occupy any women's single-sex space, break women's boundaries, get objectors sacked from their jobs, enforce compliance through credible threats of violence, get themselves centred in women's services, take jobs and awards and positions of influence formerly held by women -- that looks like an invasion to me.

MiladyBerserko · 26/09/2021 07:55

Its colonisation.

Vichy feminism. Good name. Laurie dont look at it, its rude Pennie is Petain.

oldwomanwhoruns · 26/09/2021 09:33

I'm ok with it

Vive la Resistance Star

Dilbertian · 26/09/2021 11:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MiladyBerserko · 26/09/2021 12:03

Up The Maquis
Underground resistance is what is happening now. Women have been meeting secretly online and in real life, with screening in place to ensure their safety and protect them from non friendlies. On the plus side, this issue has connected women who would otherwise not been politically active and it has put a new drive into feminism (the type for women).

Whatifitallgoesright · 01/07/2025 16:53

Wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 17/09/2021 13:31

Caitlin Moran described Katie Price as 'Vichy France with tits' in her book 'How to be a woman' in 2011.

Pot kettle there from Moran.

DeanElderberry · 01/07/2025 17:36

Why have you bumped a nearly four year old thread?

TheOtherRaven · 01/07/2025 18:01

I fell to the zombie.

Bury me under the weird statue of Mary Wollstonecraft, and I'll haunt it.

AstonScrapingsNameChange · 01/07/2025 18:31

Fwiw, zombie thread or not, I don't think there's anything wrong with labelling a set of beliefs/ behaviours. It's shorthand.

But we don't have to use it as a descriptor (that will likely become a derogatory term) for individuals.

MarieDeGournay · 01/07/2025 18:54

I'm glad 'Vichy feminist' never caught on.
Women who don't share my kind of feminism - radical lesbian feminism - do not resemble the people who collaborated with the Nazis and facilitated the murder of their neighbours.

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