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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I’m confused: ‘The Spark Company’

60 replies

OhDear2200 · 08/08/2021 22:13

The Spark Company keeps popping up on my Facebook feed so thought I would have a look. Found lots of posts interesting until I got to a post about how their feminism includes trans women as they are women.

This is within many posts about women rising against the patriarchy.

I’m confused. Do trans women suffer from the patriarchy being biologically men?

Can transwomen suffer from sexism?

This is a genuine question I’m worried I’m being naive. I don’t want anyone (however they identify) to suffer discrimination or abuse. But I can’t help feeling (possibly irrationally) a bit peeved that trans women get to claim to be on the receiving end of the ‘patriarchy’.

Apparently this is progressive feminism.

Am I backwards?

OP posts:
MiladyBerserko · 10/08/2021 02:22

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Chickenyhead · 10/08/2021 02:27

[quote lexxi87]@Enough4me

I used the men's bathroom for as long as i could before the trouble i was getting in there was too much and too often, it became a risk and one thing I've learnt from all the sexual assault I've had, not putting myself in a vulnerable position helps a lot, as well as not staying out late, being too drunk when i'm on my own, not walking around at night etc.... I started using the women's bathroom when it became too dangerous to use the men's and the response I've had from women seems to be that they either don't care or they're nice to me, again though that's down to looks and effort.[/quote]
I'm sorry you suffered abuse from male bodied people. I know how hard that is.

So I really don't understand why you force women by sex to suffer the same fear that you are so keen to escape by forcing yourself amongst the opposite sex in their safe spaces.

It is a huge double standard and it betrays your male privilege.

lexxi87 · 10/08/2021 02:28

@Enough4me

You know my testosterone level is 1.1 nmol/l and the female range is 0.35 - 2.60nmol/l . My T pre-meds was 20.4 nmol/l.. My sex drive is utterly shot and it's not i can't get it up kinda thing (that is a problem too) but i cannot get aroused, it's exceptionally difficult and masturbation is not an option anymore.

The only reason trans women in porn look like they can get hard is because they inject themselves with a drug called alprostadil (caverject) into the penis before shooting a scene, it forces an erection for 1-3 hours because viagra etc.. do not work.

We also court order the same meds i take voluntarily to be forced onto serial sex offenders and deem that enough to regard them as safe to be part of society again, because re-offending rates drop to almost zero, with re-offenders being people who don't take the meds properly (because the sexual stuff really sucks to them)

I'm not a rapist ffs and even if i wanted to I'm not penetrating anyone with my flaccid cock.

MiladyBerserko · 10/08/2021 02:30

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Chickenyhead · 10/08/2021 02:33

Transwomen offend at the same rate as all biological males. There is a parliamentary report on it. Please Google it.

Males by sex do not belong in women's safe spaces. Your ability to get an erection is irrelevant. As a male bodied person using women's safe and private spaces, you are making clear your contempt for women by sex.

lexxi87 · 10/08/2021 02:36

@Chickenyhead

I was completely unprepared for it and got caught out a lot. I'm lucky I've not been seriously injured as a result and learnt those lessons quickly but I've experienced enough to get a taste of how that feels for women and understand that worry with me being in bathrooms.

As it stands i can't change the world, i have two choices, the men's bathroom or the women's bathroom. The risk calculation is obvious which is why i put so much effort into being presentable, looks matter even if it means not going to hospital I'll take that hit.

I scan peoples body language all the time for threats and even though women's bathrooms are the safest place i still look to see if anyone reacts uncomfortably to me (i get they might not say something to my face). So far I've not noticed anything, either they're good at hiding it as soon as they see me or they don't really care, and of course people who are lovely to me and want to chat etc... obviously don't have a problem.

But yeah, i get it, but you understand why I'm not throwing myself into a rape pit in the men's bathroom, and it's not just that but it's people attacking me because they're transphobic, and people attacking me because they're attracted to me as well (toxic masc guy nonsense ffs), since I've worked on my appearance women have been great to me, helped me out when i'm getting abuse and don't seem uncomfortable interacting with me anymore.

Enough4me · 10/08/2021 02:36

Allowing men into female spaces allows men who are fully functioning into those spaces. The same men you worry about in men's toilets and additional onesbasically rapists can follow you into women's toilets as they tag onto your selfID needs, but with your size advantage and male appendage they are not after you, they want access to a woman.
That's why sex based rights are a legal requirement. Women are smaller and have vaginas.

Aparallaxia · 10/08/2021 02:37

lexxi87 This is a really difficult issue as you are clearly in physical danger and distress, which is wrong and unjust, and obviously no-one on MN wishes you personally ill. But equally this is not a helpline or a charity: we are here to discuss female problems and perspectives generally. We look at the issue of trans rights primarily for how it affects biological women, who form a special group because of our physical vulnerability and our reproductive role.

This combination is something transwomen cannot share, even though many transwomen also experience male violence, including sexual violence, for violating traditional masculine norms about appearance and behaviour—the violence you yourself have been suffering. That treatment comes from men, not women, and women should not be expected to "make it better". Instead, we think that transmen and transwomen ought to campaign for safe spaces for themselves, separate from men's and women's spaces. The dangers you face are ones women have been facing since forever. We, too, walk in fear. We avoid certain places at certain times. We always have to stay alert. Have our house keys ready. Wear sensible shoes so we can run like hell. This fear is men's doing. You should be working to stop it, not expecting women to do it for you.

As for your appearance, does it really matter, when going to the hospital, what you look like? Doesn't your biological identity matter far, far more, as has already been pointed? The NHS will treat you as a person: it doesn't matter if you wear make-up and jewellery, not in such an environment! I know, I've been there, I've been in an ER at 2am looking like I've just been dragged through a hedge backwards. The nurses and doctors were wonderful and couldn't care less what I looked like.

I don't know you, of course, and you may reject what I'm going to say, but here it is: I think your obsession with your appearance is killing you. Almost literally. Women have learned slowly & painfully that this obsession is something foisted on us from outside—from other people's expectations that we have internalized and regurgitated. To me, it sounds as though you have internalized a certain directive about what it means to be a woman, and this amounts to looking a certain way. Can't you see that this is, well, crazy? Being a woman is a matter of biology. Being feminine is something else entirely. It's a matter of cultural norms and expectations, ones women have been induced or forced to adopt and men forced or induced to reject. I think—and I know it's presumptuous of me to say this—that what you want or need is to be feminine, not female. And if you choose to do that, then more power to your elbow. It is something achievable. Being a woman just isn't. But it may save your life.

Chickenyhead · 10/08/2021 02:37

As a male by sex, you may be unaware that men by sex commit 98% of sex offences in the UK, of which 90% are by male bodied people on women by sex.

25% of women by sex or 12% of the population have been raped. And at least 65% have been sexually assaulted.

As a male bodied person, women are intimidated by you. Do you like that?

Chickenyhead · 10/08/2021 02:40

YOU DO NOT HAVE THE CHOICE OF THE WOMEN'S BATHROOM.

You just take it. Abuse their fear of you.

Coyoacan · 10/08/2021 02:41

lexxi87

I'm sorry you take drugs that do you so much harm and I'm really sorry that man can be such bastards to you, but women cannot tell if a man is taking a castrating drug or not when he comes into our changing rooms.

lexxi87 · 10/08/2021 02:42

@Chickenyhead

I've read that report, it's mis-representing facts, counting sex offenders who don't know how the system works and are trying to game it by claiming to be a woman (~60% of all trans women are clearly not sex offenders like the study suggests and notice how they excluded those who DO have a GRC), and all of the authors are very much anti trans and one is part of LGB alliance so no bias there.

As much as that study is biased BS, personally i don't personally agree with self-id for a GRC or prisons, california has shown how abused that would be, the demand for self-id is because the wait times on some GiC's are 15+ years for initial appointment instead of 4.5 months, fix the healthcare problem and there's no need for self-id on a GRC, fix the healthcare problem some more and there's no need to euthanize people either ffs.

Enough4me · 10/08/2021 02:42

I am off, but wanted to add that it's a real shame the separate transitioning facility idea hasn't taken off. A change in a situation should not damage anyone's existing legal rights.
Women are not shields.

Chickenyhead · 10/08/2021 02:46

Prove to me right now, if you will, than transwomen pose no risk to women or children. Because I can point you to an entire thread on here that shows otherwise.

Women by sex do not have to accommodate males by sex.

We say no thank you. Many, many of us.

Chickenyhead · 10/08/2021 02:48

If you want to be pro-euthanasia, you choose that.

I am pro-women by sex.

lexxi87 · 10/08/2021 02:53

@Aparallaxia

I apreciate what you're saying, my issue with looks isn't a vanity one or even so much what my belief of how a woman should look like is. Of course i like to feel that i look nice and dress in clothes i love, i think everyone feels that way, but no one's willing to die for it, i get that vanity can drive women down a dark path and that these utterly ridiculous beauty standards we have in society push that on people, my issue with my looks is not a vanity one and is probably more unique to my situation.

I've learnt a lot about women since transitioning and living this way, and will continue to do so even if it's just for a while longer but yes i agree with what you said about the things women do and worry about to keep safe, it makes me sad to understand this first hand and that's just one of many thing's I've learnt about society that make me sad to realise, it's a pretty shitty world we live in and I'm glad i didn't have some delusion that "the grass is better on the other side" going into this, but knowing and being told about what women go through, and actually experiencing it first hand are different, it's very visceral and shows you parts of yourself you'd never know were there, and i hate myself for one of those things, my therapist said it's normal and fine, I'm not happy about that.

Chickenyhead · 10/08/2021 02:56

[quote lexxi87]@Chickenyhead

I've read that report, it's mis-representing facts, counting sex offenders who don't know how the system works and are trying to game it by claiming to be a woman (~60% of all trans women are clearly not sex offenders like the study suggests and notice how they excluded those who DO have a GRC), and all of the authors are very much anti trans and one is part of LGB alliance so no bias there.

As much as that study is biased BS, personally i don't personally agree with self-id for a GRC or prisons, california has shown how abused that would be, the demand for self-id is because the wait times on some GiC's are 15+ years for initial appointment instead of 4.5 months, fix the healthcare problem and there's no need for self-id on a GRC, fix the healthcare problem some more and there's no need to euthanize people either ffs.[/quote]
You are talking about the HMPO report here. Tell me exactly how does a woman tell a sex offending male bodied person from any other male on sight?

I am talking about the Parliamentary report which included the Swedish study analysis etc. You need to read it. It is very interesting.

lexxi87 · 10/08/2021 02:58

@Chickenyhead

Not interested in BS stats counting sex offenders pretending to be trans to game the system and skewing numbers. They don't mean anything and I've probably seen them all before,

I'm not a rapist, I'm not responsible for people who do rape, and legally cis-men can go in womens bathrooms, you want to change the law and not be transphobic about it, then make the law require that people are taking meds, either prescription or self-medding, GP's can give blood tests even if you're self medding and those will prove you're taking meds. No rapist is going to willingly take meds that castrate them, it's pretty self defeating if you're doing it for sexual kicks.

lexxi87 · 10/08/2021 02:59

@Chickenyhead

Yes, i have read it, it's this one: committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/pdf/

I'm very well aware of what you're talking about.

Chickenyhead · 10/08/2021 03:03

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lexxi87 · 10/08/2021 03:05

@Chickenyhead

Grow up. I'm hanging around a bit more to discuss my original points and for anyone who want's to talk to me like a human being (ahem Chickenyhead) but if everyone's gone to bed i'll sign off because it's late.

Chickenyhead · 10/08/2021 03:07

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Chickenyhead · 10/08/2021 03:09

Still waiting btw:

Tell me exactly how does a woman tell a sex offending male bodied person from any other male on sight?

lexxi87 · 10/08/2021 03:10

@Chickenyhead

I'm not rising to this anymore, i have plenty of respect for women's boundaries and I'm not a threat to anyone. Yes i have some insight into how women feel read my previous posts. You're just being a troll now and I've got better things to spend my energy on.

Chickenyhead · 10/08/2021 03:17

I am not the troll in this situation. I have read your posts, ALL of them. I have replied with questions that you refuse to answer. You state that you have read the parliamentary report yet know nothing of its content.

Nobody has accused you of being a rapist. Nobody has denied your right to be a transwoman and live your life as you see fit.

The only challenge to you has been in assuming the right to barge in to women's safe spaces as a male bodied person.

You aren't going to answer my questions regarding how we can tell which men are safe on sight. Nobody ever does. Because it cannot be done.

Stop bullying women with covert victim Hood. You have no idea what some of us have suffered. We are pro-women for very good reasons.

You have called me transphobic yet I don't know why. You have told me to grow up, believe me, I did.

I say no thank you.