Misogyny in Scotland

[ArabellaScott]

Is Scotland more misogynist than other parts of the UK?

Macho Scotsmen is a thing, but is sexism/misogyny more prevalent than in other places?

The enormously unpopular Hate Crime Bill excluded women (and therefore misogyny) from protection.

Historically, Scotland has been enormously male-dominated culturally, politically and socially:

www.gerryhassan.com/blog/we-need-to-talk-about-sexism-in-scotland/

Police Scotland is rife with sexism and misogyny:

www.heraldscotland.com/news/18863352.damning-report-finds-bigotry-misogyny-police-scotland/

Sexual harassment rife at universities:

www.heraldscotland.com/news/16113797.female-students-face-atmosphere-sexism-scottish-universities/

Difficult to compare domestic violence figures with other areas due to differences in legal definitions:

'England & Wales, domestic violence (abuse) data is not comparable with Scotland’s statistics on domestic abuse due to differences in definition'

'www.gov.scot/publications/domestic-abuse-scotland-2018-2019-statistics/pages/21/'

Sexism in politics is still noted:

'sexism in politics is Scotland’s great unifier.'

www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/sexism-scotlands-toxic-politics-still-blight-our-democracy-kristy-strickland-3109809

This is the working group chaired by Baroness Kennedy (at the rate of £1k a day, btw) set up to look at misogyny:

www.gov.scot/groups/misogyny-and-criminal-justice-in-scotland-working-group/

Which has had several sessions already. From what I can see, none of the people consulted seem to be coming at the subject from a Scottish perspective/background. Shouldn't the committee be hearing from Scottish experts? Scottish law is unique and the working group supposed to be examining specifically the situation in Scotland.

So far I can see the only group they've taken evidence from is this one:

www.loveandpower.co.uk/

Again, not Scottish.

Is this a deliberate attempt to avoid local rivalries and factions? Maybe they're starting with a generalised view and will speak to Scottish based people/organisations in due course? Hard to say as I can't find much information (any) on the meetings/consultations/sessions so far. For £1k a day, you'd think the Baroness could manage a website/blog/newsletter.

How best to look at misogyny in Scotland, particularly?

Useful overview, thanks. I attended a Hate Crime in schools talk and the were so keen to encourage report of crimes related to race and lgbt but were completely silent on how the sexual abuse and harassment of girls in schools in our pornified, misogynistic culture were supposed to report attacks.

Thanks for links

I think a lot links into nationalism. Somehow the SNP seems to have distanced itself from the recognised toxicity of nationalist parties in other countries but it is still there. The SNP is a profoundly undemocratic party so misogyny can run rife unchallenge and is reinforced by its need for the greens and Patrick Harvey's support. So many individual ignore the antiwomen behaviour of the party because they are nationalists and put this first.

Sadly, Sturgeon has just doubled down on her pro trans/anti women stance since the Maya decision.
She will support anything that is the opposite to England. Combination of woke virtue signalling and keeping her sheep onside.

I don't know if my quick google can be called a comprehensive overview - I'd love to hear from people who know more on the subject! What am I missing? What areas do we look at to measure misogyny?

Tibtom, that's an interesting angle I hadn't thought of. SNP is ruled by a husband and wife team, is Sturgeon part of this misogynistic power-base? I know when we've looked before for any evidence to support her claim that she's a 'lifelong feminist' there hasn't actually been any. Could she be supporting misogyny just by omission?

Babdoc what was her response? (I am not sure I want to know).

The only safeguards in Scotland at the moment come from UK legislation. Without that...

It's certainly more "institutionally misogynist" at present - misogynists have been given free reign by the Woke/TRA stuff. Does that really reflect the society being "more misogynist"? I'm not sure that it does.

I would think it's more about the desire to be progressive, and other baser factors like the SNP cliquism, having unfettered universal misogynistic elements.

Could she be supporting misogyny just by omission?

It is hardly by omission! Unless by omission you mean actively excluding sex from hate crimes bill, not condemning the treatment of MPs and MSPs standing up for women, not listening to any women's groups. But her party also changed the definition of women to include men in a law so a fully male public board could be considered gender equal, put men on women only short lists, put out a tearful apology to trans after being backed into a corner over allowing raped traumatised women to request a female examiner to catalogue their injuries, insists that in order to qualify for government funding women's groups include men... It goes on.

her party also changed the definition of women to include men in a law

Faraboots was this, please? I know there was an FOI that said 'TWAW', but has a specific law been changed?

Yes, a feminine sounding name on a gas bill is enough but you are also not allowed to ask if they have this.

For Women Scotland have an allotment on this.

Sorry, which law is it you're referring to, Tibtom?

Oh, representation on public boards. Got it.

The Gender Representation on Public Boards (Scotland) Act 2018.

Quoting from FWS crowdfunder:

The draft guidance expands on the definition of "woman" and sets out examples of what would be regarded as 'evidence that the person was continuously living as a woman':

"This would not require the person to dress, look or behave in any particular way. However, it would be expected that there would be evidence that the person was continuously living as a woman, such as – always using female pronouns; using a female name on official documents such as a driving licence or passport, or on utility bills or bank accounts; using female titles; updating the gender marker to female on official documents such as a driving licence or passport; describing themselves and being described by others in written or other communication as a woman."

The Act does not require an appointing person to ask a candidate to prove that they meet the definition of woman in the Act.

Link to ForWomen's site: forwomen.scot/

"We are challenging the Scottish Ministers over the definition of "woman" in the Gender Representation on Public Boards (Scotland) Act 2018 which we believe is outside the legislative competency of the Scottish Parliament under the Scotland Act 1998 and in contravention of the Scottish Ministers' duties under equality legislation.

This leaves us with a definition that includes some men, while, remarkably, excluding some women. This cannot be allowed to stand."

Cross post

Tibtom, there was a snippet on the BBC news. I only caught the first bit as I have to mute Sturgeon or switch channels - I can’t stand her whiny voice and irritating smirk -
but I got as far as her saying she “stands foursquare” behind the trans rights movement. She’s a traitor to women as well as to the UK in my opinion.

With Nicola Sturgeon being a strong principles woman leader, I fail to understand how anyone can see Scotland as Misogynistic.

Wilful blindness, Mishy? She has introduced a bill banning free speech and giving protection to every potentially oppressed group except women. She has approved intact male rapists being transferred to a women’s prison merely on their unsubstantiated claim to identify as female.
And what “strong principles”? An obsession with tearing our country apart?

I believe there is greater misogyny in Scotland, yes. More old fashioned views about the role of women compared to similar cohort(university educated professionals) in London and the South-East. Even DH noticed when we came to Scotland 15 years ago that attitudes seemed a decade or so behind what we were used to. I think Sturgeon will say or do anythong to retain power. She and the SNP have decided to cultivate a youth vote and @Tibtom's post lists it well. I am worried what will happen to women's rights under Equality law if we do gain independence. I love where we live in so many ways but the politics stink.

In terms of the FM, had she put out any sort of statement decrying the corrective rape threats directed at Joanna Cherry by a member of the SNP, I would have said she was a strong leader, interested in defending women's rights. As it was, she seemed far more interested in producing a video for those small numbers of members leaving the party because of it's perceived 'transphobia'. No such video aimed at women leaving the party (of which there are many) has been made, to my knowledge.

I saw someone on this board make a really good point that countries who have traditionally been quite regressive and oppressive of women's rights, swing wildly too far the other way in an effort to be 'inclusive' before finding a reasonable middle ground. I think this is what is happening at the moment and it will get worse before it gets better.

Waitwhat, as far as I'm aware, Nicola Sturgeon has never spoken a word on the subject of threats received by women, and never condemned the death/rape threats received by Joanna Cherry - although of course she has recorded special greetings for trans people.

It's the broader subject of misogyny in Scottish society I'm particularly interested in here, though. What are the metrics used to measure attitudes and mindsets?

@MishyJDI

With Nicola Sturgeon being a strong principles woman leader, I fail to understand how anyone can see Scotland as Misogynistic.

Snort

I've posted a few times on this subject.

I see a lot of internalised misogyny in this country. A belief that Scottish women are strong and tough, so tough that we can handle ourselves and any crap from men, with the unspoken sense that anyone who can't just isn't trying hard enough.

I'll try and find my earlier posts- I think there are certain comedy tropes etc that are harmful.

@Babdoc

Sadly, Sturgeon has just doubled down on her pro trans/anti women stance since the Maya decision. She will support anything that is the opposite to England. Combination of woke virtue signalling and keeping her sheep onside.

Much as it pains me to agree with Babdoc in this case I do. Sturgeon is desperate for Scotland to seem like a more progressive place than rUK. As well as this Stonewall et al are heavily embedded within Scottish government and Police Scotland.

This is all adding up to a very hostile environment for women

I understand suicide is a complex issue, but I note that 'a Scottish Parliamentary Committee inquiry this month, where MSPs heard that Scotland was lagging behind other UK nations on suicide prevention. ' from 2019. Mental health in Scotland, especially of males, this report would seem to suggest, is not in a good place.

www.samaritans.org/scotland/news/samaritans-scotland-concern-over-increase-young-male-suicides/

There is a report downloadable here from Engender that uses Lord Bracadale's report and others as evidence for assessing things like harassment in the workplace, education, etc:

www.engender.org.uk/news/blog/making-women-safer-in-scotland-the-case-for-a-standalone-misogyny-offence/

'The analysis of responses to the consultation notes wide concerns around Lord Bracadale’s notion of ‘gender hostility’ and specifically that it fails to name the problem (misogyny)106 that the legislative response is meant to address.107'

'Scotland has a violence against women strategy that integrates a feminist, gendered analysis of men’s violence.133 It has a ‘gold standard’ domestic abuse law.134 Nonetheless, the most recent year has seen the highest level of sexual crime since records began.1'

Ah, and reading through that report, it becomes evident where three out of those names above consulted for Baroness Kennedy's report have come from.

Again, I don't see any evidence that is Scotland specific. Surely someone somewhere has researched this?