Would you march?

[FightingtheFoo]

Not some bullshit "pussy hat" march that was about nothing.

Not a vigil taken over by self-publicists who think "woman" is a feeling.

I'm talking about a march through central London with the specific aim of highlighting male violence against women - adult human females - in the UK.

Violence against our bodies, our spaces, our language.

Everyone would be encouraged to attend with a photograph of a woman who has been murdered by a man in the UK in the last 10 years.

Who would be up for it?

FiLiA are doing a march for murdered women at their conference in October.

I'd consider it. I'd need to be 100% sure it wouldn't be hijacked though.

If anyone cares and wants to help please please do mystery shopping sort of thing with trying to get help to leave domestic violence
I'm sorry you had this experience, please complain to the service itself and/or the local housing department
But please, don't anyone do this. Women's services are incredibly overstretched. Time spent on a 'mystery shopper' is time stolen from a woman in real need.
Plus, do you really want to put women off leaving dangerous relationships? Everyone makes mistakes sometimes, no service is perfect- often because of lack of funding. Give feedback so they can improve- and so they can demonstrate that women get turned away because there's not enough space.

@stumbledin

Yes this made me think about why dont more women support the MWR march.

And also, they usually have really good speakers, particularly giving a platform to women from minority communities, but more often than not the marches drift off to have coffer with friends. It alwasy leaves me feeling really sad. Some of the speeches (and songs) have been brilliant.

I actually think the impact of marches is no longer that meaningful - as a way of demonstrating. It is more about making the marchers feel they are doing something.

Lobbying doesn't work.

I think we only have legal prosecutions left to us, but first of all they are very expensive, and secondly the Government is going to change the basis on which JR can happen (because they dont want to be legally chanllenged which has happened sucessfully). So while all the political show offs are running round screaming about kill the bill (but really wanting to have a go (physically) at the police, the real threat to our political freedom is being snuck in via the back door.

Yeah, I wonder if marches are all that politically effective too. I don't think they often have the results people would like.

The maybe have some function in terms of creating a sense of solidarity, but if that is the focus I think there may be more affective ways of gathering to do that than a march.

Yes of course 100%.

I'm in London.

DM me if there's anything going on!

I know other women who would as well.

' I think there may be more affective ways of gathering to do that than a march.'

What do you suggest? I can do more than one thing.

Women have had to fight and fight to get anything. The suffragettes were seen as terrorists- they committed arson, bombings. They died for their cause. They were subjected to torture at the hands of the police.

The marches in Poland made front page news. Also India.

What other things can we do?

You know what.

The football thing.

Angry men gathering for a day or 2. Boom. Done. Govt saying wow this is v important. Headline news.

When men are angry it's important. Because they are prepared to commit violence. Cause real problems.

What can we do? Really?

@NiceGerbil

' I think there may be more affective ways of gathering to do that than a march.'

What do you suggest? I can do more than one thing.

Women have had to fight and fight to get anything. The suffragettes were seen as terrorists- they committed arson, bombings. They died for their cause. They were subjected to torture at the hands of the police.

The marches in Poland made front page news. Also India.

What other things can we do?

Getting on the news does not necessarily translate to change, and organising a march takes a certain amount of time and effort.

Generally, marches and protests are effective when they have very specific policy goals, or some other kind of concrete thing they are trying to accomplish, rather than something very general like "end violence against women". Because lots of people agree with that, but it's easy to say. What to do is a harder question, and things like "tell men to stop being violent" really aren't any kind of answer.

In the absence of some concrete goal it might be worth considering using the time and effort towards developing some. How to do that, maybe there are some initiative that have already been suggested or are in the works, maybe there needs to be some kind of research or initiative to ask women affected by violence what would help, maybe there needs to be a way to facilitate communications between those people and others who know what types of resources or laws could be be used, or something else. Maybe it's a matter of fundraising for organisations that already exist, maybe about figuring out what kinds of backgrounds produce violent men...

I don't know, but marches on the news are just marches on the news.

Well they are if you're not interested in the cause. I suppose.

What do you suggest? Maybe there's something in the works? By who? About what? The issues women and girls are facing are many. From sexual attacks in schools to defunding refuges to women bearing the brunt of the changes due to covid to rape prosections at an all time low to the hopelessness of whatever the CSA is called now to multiple scandals around our care under the NHS to grooming gangs still operating in Rotherham etc to what's happening with girls in care to street harassment to revenge porn to internet grooming to ... And on and on.

Maybe there is something in the works is not a solid suggestion.

And a march is one day.

Why on earth say nope don't bother.

I happened to be in London when there was a march and it had an impact on me.

So there's that I suppose.

In town it's not just about the news. There's loads of people about.

Few thoughts ...

1 - thanks OP for posting this and getting ideas and getting the discussion going

2 - the next stage needs operations and planning away from a public forum

3 - to Purple's point about not getting hijacked... this is key. Security needs some thought and ALOT of planning

4 - research and work into specific system points of failure that lead to women being murdered need to be identified. then planning how to march and take other actions in a way that will visibly bring those points of failure to public attention (rather than a generic march,). e.g. name those in the system who made the wrong decisions.

just brief thoughts. needs a lot more discussion.

Million Women Rise is the best march I’ve ever been on, & they do know exactly what a woman is.

Generally, marches and protests are effective when they have very specific policy goals, or some other kind of concrete thing they are trying to accomplish, rather than something very general like "end violence against women". Because lots of people agree with that, but it's easy to say. What to do is a harder question, and things like "tell men to stop being violent" really aren't any kind of answer.

I agree with this. The 'football thing' wasn't an outpouring about, let's say greed in top flight football. They had a specific aim: to prevent English clubs taking part in a non competitive, European franchise, or in the case of the Manchester United protest, to force out the club owners (much more ambitious and I think less likely to succeed but that's for another day). They could explain why they were there and what they wanted to happen in half a dozen words and they didn't water down the message with 'Oh and while we're here, xxxx is really bad too.'

Secondly, they didn't randomly march. They targeted the clubs involved and made it very clear that, if the proposal went ahead' they would remove their custom.

I think we could learn a lot from them.

Yes - pickets as a form of protest and regaining lost rights.

The whole marching thing is such a cliche now - either it is highjacked by the SWP or Sisters Uncut (which means the visuals in the news are always the same no message transmitted) - and is much more about re-eacting what some people have sort of romanticised about history. A bit like when all those nice comfortably off young people went round wearing Che Guevara tee-shirts.

And the other negative think about marches is that effectively XR have made it into this sort of white middle class indulgence. You occopy not the space of the oppressor but the public space people need to get to work, to hospital etc., so it is seen as a sort of inulgence that those looking for facile selfies of being revolutionary concoct. A lot of the policing bill isn't about cracking down on hardened left revolutionaries but to stop this over priviledged people disrupting peoples lives. A bit like the LTN. In theory a good idea but in practive just give a better way of live to a few, while those around have to suck up (literally) the fumes of displace traffic.

In a way some sort of picket is more overtly political, but ... is more likely to be heavily police because (whatever you think of them) they have to not only allow your protest but allow people who have a right to enter a particular building or whatever, access to that building.

Marches are much more about traffic policing.

So does my or your right to protest take precedent over lets say someone wanting to get to hospital, or a young family that have saved up to have a day in some big city, but arrive to find they are hemmed in by angry protestors doing a bit of personal therapy. Its a bit like primal scream as a means of expressing yourself.

Really good posts @stumbledin

yes, food for thought
I've been on many marches in my time and success rate has been very low
I agree with the analysis of the football thing, they had a very simple demand and took it to the right place.

Yes definitely if in London or down south.

Women's March Mancester - 3 July 2021 17:00

Violence against Women is a global pandemic. We call on all women to march to demonstrate against male violence in all its forms!

Can protest against yet another CSE gang in the north today be include in this?
More (29) charged today in W. Yorks

I don't understand how marching helps women. I know what would help me and that's safe permanent housing and being allowed to talk about things meant to help that aren't working or going wrong. Like the law in theory on paper being no good if it's not being followed or enforced. I'm sorry if I sound bitter. It's just that as a victim who could be murdered, I don't see anything helpful about marches. It's actually really distressing for some of us because it can make escaping or finding safety harder because of crowds blocking traffic and making travel really difficult and more scary.

You don't sound bitter safe and I think you've made a good point.
I've been on so many marches where I've dreaded anyone from the media stopping me because they always ask, 'What do you want to happen?'
I'll only march now if I can answer that question in a single, short sentence / phrase:
'No rapists in women's prisons'
'Keep women's sports for women'
'Legal, safe abortions'
'No strip club in this neighbourhood'
I think all work. If you answer with, 'End violence against women' they'll come straight back at you with 'How?' That's when you need a short, achievable answer or their eyes start to glaze over.

I hope it's clear I'm not dismissing the idea, and I'm not saying marches never work - you could argue 'Stop the poll tax' brought down a Prime Minister. But I think you need to be able to communicate very clearly what you want and how you'd do it.

I wouldn’t march. As pp said, suffragettes died for their cause but their sacrifice was wasted because men have just found other ways to undermine us, enter our safe spaces and erase our sex based rights. Plus if I did protest, most likely I’d end up being “cancelled” and losing my job for daring to speak out, like so many other women have - and I can’t afford that.

No, their sacrifice was not wasted.
We can all vote.
We may not like the choices we have, but twas ever thus.
And the suffragettes/suffragists are a good case in point, they had a very clear demand. And used many different methods.

The Suffragettes had a partial victory and only because they agreed to stop demonstations and support the war effort (WWI) and as we know the "reward" did not benefit all women.

And quite honestly they got where they did to be able to bargain with the Government of the day through use of violence against property.

So again this romanticised myth that somehow women marched and the male world caved in isn't even true.

How many of you wanting to march would actually take on some form of criminal damage to make your point. Blow up a few strip clubs?

Or go on hunger strike?

And as we know the biggest impedement to even having a march is knowing that it will be coopted - or if not coopted attract a counter demo of TWAW - cis women are the oppressor. Look at the Lesbian march in Leeds (2 years ago?).

I cant even feel that an anti demo demo ie a celebration of women to try and promote some common cause would be possible in this day and age.