BBC Sewing Bee

[Davros]

They regularly mention the differences between male and female bodies. How has this been allowed to slip through?

Did nobody notice the use of the song Lola in the background during one of the scenes? I have to confess to a private chuckle about that...

@NutellaEllaElla

Have you heard about the knitting group purity spiral drama? It's happening in Sewing groups too. I'm in a facebook group where it's in the rules you mustn't start posts with "hello ladies" or even "ladies and gents", you must always acknowledge that not everyone is binary so gender neutral greetings only. Online groups only i'd wager. This is very much an online thing IMO.

Yes I can second this - it's ridiculous and happening across more and more of the sewing and fabric groups I'm in on social media.

Groups now say you can't start a post using gendered terms e.g 'hey guys', or 'ladies' etc. In one of the groups I'm in anyone who does use gendered terms has their post locked and they are requested to edit to to be more 'inclusive' otherwise it will be taken down. I considered and started writing a private response stating my position on compelled speech but gave up as I couldn't think of a good enough angle.

It’s so grim and repressive - wtf is wrong with “guys” which generally means everyone. It’s like trying to find things to pick on to show you;re inclusive.

I have a blind friend who uses “see” in conversation and is fine with other people using it. E.g. shall we go and see a film, I see etc. Because it’s normal and although technically it’s not “inclusive”, it’s just miserable if people are falling over themselves trying not to cause offence and getting tied up in knots, and he doesn’t want that.

This banning of saying so much stuff is so destructive of real relationships and real interaction.

@WindyPudding

As someone who is well outside that norm I regard it as just another one of the many pains in the arse about being female in a world mainly designed for men and have no sympathy with hurt feelings. If I want a sweater that reaches my wrists I have to buy a man’s one.

Totally agree and I do the same, also often wear men's shoes and socks. It's never occurred to me that there was any "phobia" involved, just that I'm enough of an outlier for it not to be cost-effective.

I may have got my terms wrong, I think it said to be is “cis privilege” to be able to go into shops and buy gender-appropriate clothes.

Except I can’t.

And many other women can’t either, whether its their boobs that are too big or their legs are too short for whatever the designers and buyers have filled the rails with.

*I think it is said to be

You’re all being utterly transphobic. I’m unsure why but I’m positive someone will be along to tell you soon. Most likely because the word woman has been mentioned though.

There's now a new scheme I'm being encouraged to sign up for as a high street business to demonstrate we welcome trans and non-binary people and get a special sticker. Everyone has been really enthusiastic about it especially the businesses which depend on the fact that we're a dimorphic species! Oh, and unlikely to actually have anything that would fit a transwoman. Fwiw we already have clients who are trans, non-binary etc and no issues, we're happy to welcome anyone who wants our services and engages respectfully with my team. But I feel very uncomfortable about this and the fact that many local businesses will soon have these stickers. However, I'm not sure how to express it without sounding a bit 'all lives matter'.

I actually think that the use of ‘guys’ is gendered and is unhelpful when talking to a mixed group. Similarly in sewing groups I don’t like it when someone addresses the group as ‘ladies’ because I know that there are a handful of men in the group and it is probably hard enough for men to say that they like to sew without judgment from others. That being said I don’t like compelled speech and don’t like it when the groups dictate what people can and can’t say.

Yes I think guys does have a meaning of males, but it’s also used for any group of people eg I can be with a group of all women and someone will say “hi guys”. I have a friend who uses it to address her DDs. I don’t think that’s like “man” being used to mean “all humans”, as it can be used for just women, but maybe in a slightly jokey way. Hmm not sure now!

(Ladies is a bit different I can see why you wouldn’t use that if the group included men.)

I would definitely use guys for male or female. Just any group of people. Not everyone does though.

I wouldn't say 'hey ladies' cause it's cringe but it's hardly offensive. I've been in thousands of meetings where 'thanks gentlemen' has been used (including one already this morning) and I'm pretty sure I'll survive.

@MrsBunHat

Yes I think guys does have a meaning of males, but it’s also used for any group of people eg I can be with a group of all women and someone will say “hi guys”. I have a friend who uses it to address her DDs. I don’t think that’s like “man” being used to mean “all humans”, as it can be used for just women, but maybe in a slightly jokey way. Hmm not sure now!

See I think it’s just like man being used to mean all humans. I understand that people don’t necessarily mean it as being universally male but it does reinforce the ‘default male’ nature of so many things.

Tbh I think this works to a wider issue of virtue signalling and policing language unnecessarily. It's small fry how someone starts a post to address a majority female group and to pay so much attention to it is a waste of time and effort.

Sometimes words are important. Not really in this case.

@Quincie

I like the sewing bee - great entertainment - but I thought the BBC was all for inclusiveness - are there any straight males on the show?

In a previous series they had a senior Army officer who made ball gowns for his wife and I think he made a wedding dress for his driver?

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/profiles/1Fmf0gSXmwN8wwwRlVRSjrH/neil

What the heck is with calling poppers 'snaps'??? This is really annoying me!

Sorry think I'm in the wrong thread - I just searched for sewing bee and assumed this was in the tv section, just realised it's in feminism . Will try and find a TV conversation instead...

So they’ve just pointed out that boy babies used to wear dresses.

These days if a toddler or small child wants to wear a dress that’s evidence that it identifies as a girl.

To me this just proves that our expectations of gender behaviour are set by society not by anything innate.

@Itwasjustresting

So they’ve just pointed out that boy babies used to wear dresses.

These days if a toddler or small child wants to wear a dress that’s evidence that it identifies as a girl.

To me this just proves that our expectations of gender behaviour are set by society not by anything innate.

Winston Churchill and Teddy Roosevelt might actually have been trans kids it seems....

Agree they are poppers. The sewing bee is great but I agree it needs fewer gay men and more lesbians.

@Smidge001 ...come back ...pull up a chair...it's good here and there's cake and everything

Ahh that's kind, thank you. After having read the full thread now I might just do that after all.

Lovely , @Smidge001.
Pleased to meet you .

@Davros

They regularly mention the differences between male and female bodies. How has this been allowed to slip through?

But they are different...

I remember one of the designers on Project Runway absolutely losing it and ranting because he hated having to make clothes for a normal woman (the challenge where they bring in a group of non-models and the designer has to collaborate to make a garment for her that she actually likes) - there were gestures about the bits he particularly found difficult (all the curvy bits) vs. the rather more uniformly up and down models he preferred.

@Smidge001 there is a thread here, just in case you want to join as well