Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

University staff given list of banned 'microinsults' they cannot say to trans people

545 replies

ChristinaXYZ · 01/05/2021 12:34

From the Telegraph. the last para make you want to weep -

A Newcastle University spokesman said: "We want our campus to be a welcoming and safe place for everyone who studies, works or visits here, regardless of gender, race, class, age or disability."

But it would seem they are not bothered about making people feel welcome regardless of sex, as they don't even mention it.

OP posts:
Xenia · 01/05/2021 15:57

Growing a thicker skin might be more useful advice for students and for life. None of us want trans people (or women or blacks or anyone) mocked or derided but at this least Government is trying to do something about woke /overly politically correct universities. It is the free speech I want to see even if students get upset.

toffeebutterpopcorn · 01/05/2021 15:58

When did ‘something i don’t like’ ‘boggle’ ‘oooo get her!’ become ‘micro aggression’. There is rarely any aggression if any type in the examples peope state.

When did higher education become a place where you couldn’t say things? It was a place of debate and mind expansion when I was younger.

CatherinaJTV · 01/05/2021 16:02

@ArabellaScott

Edinburgh University has drawn up phrases that staff cannot use

Amazing.

I work at Edinburgh University and have not heard anything about this. It's likely the usual trans hate hyperbole.
Erikrie · 01/05/2021 16:04

Growing a thicker skin might be more useful advice for students and for life

I agree with this. It's something I try to teach my own children.

CatherinaJTV · 01/05/2021 16:04

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria

And while this important work of policing the language of academia goes on female students are being raped on campus. Disabled students have huge issues navigating Edinburgh university's old buildings. Poor students have massive barriers to learning. Foreign students are freezing their tits off because Edinburgh is Baltic.

Where's the lanyard for them?

Seriously? It's Edinburgh Uni's fault that Edinburgh, in Scotland, is colder than where the students come from?
Erikrie · 01/05/2021 16:06

I work at Edinburgh University and have not heard anything about this. It's likely the usual trans hate hyperbole

Well you're in a perfect position to go and find the guidance for yourself then. Do you not believe this to be true? It's come from somewhere.

Tanith · 01/05/2021 16:07

There have always been students like this. When I worked for a university in the 80s it was all Boycott South Africa. One of my colleagues used to love trolling the SU bar. Said he was honing their debating skills Smile
It’s the grown ups joining in that’s different now. I’m guessing it’s to do with funding and the fear of losing it if they aren’t seen as allies.

NinaMimi · 01/05/2021 16:07

@MissBarbary

Edinburgh University has drawn up phrases that staff cannot use, including saying "all women hate their periods" and "all people think about being the opposite gender sometimes"

In my own case both of those statements are untrue so I would not be particularly pleased at hearing them being put forward as a universal truth.

The point is though that it’s not the university’s job to regulate such things. Lots of people come out with generalisations about women or other categories that I’m in that I don’t like or agree with, but I don’t see the point in universities trying to control their behaviour. In fact it’s worse than the original annoyance.
SuperLoudPoppingAction · 01/05/2021 16:07

I do believe in and care about microaggressions fwiw.
I work a lot with people who experience Islamophobia and racism, and I experience lesbophobia and ablism.
The way people treat you with a faint air of revulsion is something that grinds you down.
But you can't make 'turn your nose up at someone' against the rules.
It's about subconscious reactions to difference.
The best way to get rid of prejudice is surely to encourage lots of dialogue across difference.

CatherinaJTV · 01/05/2021 16:07

[quote Amrapaali]"Educate the offender"

GreyhoundG1rl · 01/05/2021 16:07

Seriously? It's Edinburgh Uni's fault that Edinburgh, in Scotland, is colder than where the students come from?
That’s all you took from that post?

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 01/05/2021 16:09

Catherina, are you able to see the link I just posted?

Erikrie · 01/05/2021 16:09

I am Edinburgh Uni faculty and have not heard of any of this. It's just the Telegraph being, well, the Telegraph

Are you saying they made it all up then?

CBUK22 · 01/05/2021 16:09

The current situation is the logical progression of the extremist feminist agenda, for decades women have turned a blind eye to the misandry.

For a good 20 years no white person (especially white men) has been able to question any aspect of the far left narrative. Because there has been little or no opposition it has just progressed further and further to the left.

Tony Blairs race/equality chief did a fantastic documentary on it a couple of years ago. In he admitted Labours aim was to stop people expressing any other view on race/gender/sexuality than multiculturalism etc being great, their though being if we stopped people talking about it they would stop thinking about it. The documentary is a very thought provoking view of how wrong they got it.

AllThatisSolid · 01/05/2021 16:12

Meanwhile, the glass ceiling for women academics lives on unchallenged, women do the bulk of the first year teaching whilst watching younger men shoot ahead with promotions, and there are multiple, daily, aggressions and microaggressions leveled at and experienced by women and no one gives a proverbial

Indeed, @YetAnotherSpartacus

And women, and particularly women from ethnic minorities, are routinely treated in sexist racist ways by students.

Some of the things we're apparently being told not to say to students are things I wouldn't dream of saying to any student anyway. I'm not really interested in them as people - I'm interested in my students as learners.

How they dress or what they look like is (almost) entirely irrelevant. The only time that dress is relevant is for matters of safety or ease of movement, if we're doing something which requires movement. So any student turning up in, for example, high heels or a top which doesn't cover shoulders & upper arms, would be inappropriate for some of my teaching sessions.

How they identify isn't really relevant either - that's their business.

Unless their behaviour makes it my business, by impinging on other students' learning, for example.

But the general trend is a bit sinister. The Equalities Act explicitly states there's no hierarchy of protected characteristics. But you'd have to be living under a rock not to know that women and disabled people are routinely and structurally discriminated against in our society, and universities reflect this.

So if you're interested in material reality, the only way you can see trans students as "the most oppressed" is if you routinely and deliberately overlook sexism and ableism in universities.

blackwhiteandstripey · 01/05/2021 16:13

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ChristinaXYZ · 01/05/2021 16:13

A reminder that if you need help countering this sort of thing at work then there is Counterweight counterweightsupport.com/ . They provide loads of resources and some caseworks for people with serious problems at work.

OP posts:
SchadenfreudePersonified · 01/05/2021 16:15

I used to work at Newcastle University - if this is the shape of their policy now I'm pleased I'm out of it.

Enough4me · 01/05/2021 16:15

It is clearly in the University EXTERNAL FACING web pages (and is marked to be removed)...and it is heavily biased that trans people should be prioritised and everyone else will need to accept the label cis just to make trans people happy...

Finding out more (to be removed)
Further resources for Trans and non-Binary people.

Trans and non-Binary people face challenges doing things that many simply take for granted – such as using a public toilet or changing room – fearing hostility and experiencing stress. Understanding this will help you in preventing and challenging discrimination. The environment can also be hostile to Trans and non-Binary people through visible Anti-Trans campaigns, such as stickers and posters, often in toilets, as well as on social media.

There are many resources available to help you find out more about being Trans or non-Binary, the discrimination and the hurdles they face in navigating the gendered environment (see resource list below).

To access the gym at King's Building you have to go through a changing room, which is either the female changing room or the male changing room so you can't physically get into the gym without dealing with these things and potentially people looking at you, potentially people asking you why you're there, people kicking you out it's so it's like there's so many situations where you are exposed to, like that, categorization that other people put on you. Just because you are the way you are, there's like no way for you to escape it really.

Some common terms you may come across

Transgender: some feel strongly that they are of the ‘opposite’ gender and for others, there is a sense of fluidity between genders or that the gender descriptions available do not match their gender identity at all. People experiencing this are defined as transgender.

Non-Binary: Non-binary people do not define their gender in a ‘binary’ (male/female; man/woman) way.

Gender Dysphoria: When this experience results in distressing feelings it is described as ‘gender dysphoria’. Not all trans people will experience dysphoria, but they may still identify as trans because their assigned sex does not match their gender identity and they are experiencing ‘gender incongruity’.

Transition: Some people feel the tension so strongly that they seek surgical remediation, others choose to express their gender without the need for surgery, but make use of hormone treatment, and some may not feel the need for medical intervention

Transphobia: Transphobia is the hatred, fear, mistrust of or prejudice against trans and gender non-conforming people. This leads to discrimination and exclusion.

Cisgender: 'Cisgender’ is a term which is used to describe people who do not experience gender incongruity. Not everyone likes being described as cisgendered, but it is increasingly being accepted as a useful distinguishing term to make writing and talking about trans people easier.

CatherinaJTV · 01/05/2021 16:15

@Erikrie

I work at Edinburgh University and have not heard anything about this. It's likely the usual trans hate hyperbole

Well you're in a perfect position to go and find the guidance for yourself then. Do you not believe this to be true? It's come from somewhere.

good point - I found it:

blogs.ed.ac.uk/learningexchange/wp-content/uploads/sites/1606/2020/09/IADtransandnonbinarymicroaggressions.pdf

I'll read it in detail - I am sure it'll be more informative than the Telegraph "outrage" piece.

Erikrie · 01/05/2021 16:16

Thanks for posting. I'll take a look too.

JustHereWithMyPopcorn · 01/05/2021 16:19

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

Another is engaging in "avoidant behaviour" around trans people.

Compelled association?!

What if the trans person is just an annoying idiot who you wouldn’t mix with however they identified? Are you allowed to avoid them then or does their ID trump that?
AllThatisSolid · 01/05/2021 16:19

The best way to get rid of prejudice is surely to encourage lots of dialogue across difference.

Absolutely @SuperLoudPoppingAction That is so brilliantly put (I'm going to pinch it & use it IRL, if you don't mind. Thank you! Star Flowers )

And I think it's worth being really clear in discussions around identity politics - that we are discussing systems and structures and ideologies, not questioning individuals' rights to exist.

These discussions - particularly where there are conflicting rights (eg women and transwomen) cannot be about individuals; they really have to be about structures & principles, because otherwise, we're bogged down in personal feelings. Never a good basis for laws or policies.

AlfonsoTheTerrible · 01/05/2021 16:20

Another is engaging in "avoidant behaviour" around trans people.

I find this particularly interesting as I have autism. I struggle with social communication and social interaction and am constantly second-guessing myself as to whether or not what I've just said is socially 'acceptable'. I cannot bring my "whole self" (or whatever the nauseating phrase is) because of my disability. I limit my social interactions with colleagues because I am worried that I will say the 'wrong' thing or what I say will be interpreted wrongly. I struggle being forced to obey and observe transideology because compelled speech and belief conflict with my disability.

If forced to wear a lanyard at work (I currently work from home) I will wear my sunflower lanyard, not that I expect it will do me any good.