Caitlin Moran in the Guardian today

[RoyalCorgi]

I promise I'm not trying to start another argument about Caitlin Moran. It's just that I want to record my annoyance and despair at her rewriting of history. Apparently in the 1980s there were no female role models for girls apart from Mrs Thatcher and Miss Piggy. And no one ever wrote about female masturbation until Caitlin wrote about it in her 2011 book. Plus more in that vein.

I remember back in the 80s reading Dale Spender's marvellous book "Women of ideas and what men have done to them" where she painstakingly writes in detail at the lives of amazing historical women - scientists, philosophers, writers, campaigners - and looks at how they were simply forgotten about and written out of history. Thanks in part to Spender's work, female historians went about the business of researching more forgotten women and writing their biographies.

Now it seems as if all the work of feminists in the 70s and 80s on, for example, female sexuality or in political campaigning has just been forgotten about. Feminists hadn't achieved anything of note until Caitlin Moran wrote How to be a Woman.

Once again, women's achievements are being written out of history.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/29/caitlin-moran-reread-how-to-be-a-woman-marvel-what-i-got-wrong

Pelleas I feel minded to point out that some of the over 40s actually have pubic hair, what with not wanting to be porn stars & all.

She’s a woke embarrassment of a human being

What troubles me is the thought of younger generations believing this rubbish. It all adds to the marginalisation of the middle-aged woman, the 'Karen' stereotype.

I agree. I think Victoria Wood was far more relevant than any of the people in her list of ground breaking icons.

Cosmopolitan was covering all that shit in the 80s.

I love the idea that we may have Diana and the fact that the heir to the throne is a bit vertically challenged to thank for our comfy flat shoes. Except that I, for one, was already a Spare Rib-reading, dungaree-wearing comfy flat shoe-sporting second wave feminist wearing a "Don't do it, Di!" badge in 1981

Sneer all you like. As someone who wouldn't be seen dead in 1981 or now in dungarees and comfy flat shoes I absolutely remember that pretty flat shoes of the type I do wear were appearing in mainstream, high street shops.

I can't read her columns any more ever since she decided to try to justify sending her daughter to a private school whilst at the same claiming to be a Socialist. Apparently there were no decent state schools within walking distance of her house (thousands of London children travel to school on public transport).

@JayAlfredPrufrock

Cosmopolitan was covering all that shit in the 80s.

And the mid 70s for that matter.

What troubles me is the thought of younger generations believing this rubbish. It all adds to the marginalisation of the middle-aged woman, the 'Karen' stereotype.

I think this is an excellent point.

Those of us of a certain age know that Caitlin Moran isn’t even the most interesting, in a long line of feminist writers.

But young women get much of their information from popular media and social media. The gutting of women’s studies programs and the “feminism is for everyone” trope mean that young women have no reason not to believe Ms Moran when she tells then feminism was invented in 2011.

Anita Roddick was someone I remember greatly admiring in the 80s.

What is The Female Eunuch, we just don't know.

Didn't Shere Hite write about it too?

@Pelleas

Masturbation, pornography, pubic hair, abusive relationships, wonky tits, menstruation, eating disorders, abortion, the madness of expensive weddings, sexism in the workplace, the pressure to have children, binge-drinking, the pain of childbirth, the joy of life as a modern woman: when I wrote How To Be A Woman in 2011, these were pretty novel subjects

Caitlin seems to have got 2011 mixed up with 1952.

All of these were in The Whole Woman, and that came out in the '90s.

Diana also popularised dungarees!

just wanted to mention other women I remember seeing on telly when i was 9 or 10 and older- Lena Lovic, Toyah Wilcox, Arabella Lwin, Siouxsie Sioux, Debbie Harry, Grace Jones, Joan Armatrading

The Guardian doesn't allow comments. Times does and goodness are Times readers fed up of Caitlin Moran.

and the “feminism is for everyone” trope mean that young women have no reason not to believe Ms Moran when she tells then feminism was invented in 2011

You forgot to add "by Caitlin Moran"

Could she be any more irritating? (On the off-chance she sees this - that is a rhetorical question, not a request)

I'm younger than Moran and a lot of the books I read as a baby feminist in the '90s were '80s books. Our Bodies Ourselves, some feminist textbooks in the school library and Out of the Doll's House (which is a must-read when it comes to women's history, and radfems will be interested to know that Sheila Jeffreys was one of the many women interviewed for it). Our Bodies Ourselves was a godsend when I was questioning my sexuality. And in the '90s I had Shirley Manson, Courtney Love and Cerys Matthews as my role models, and later the girls from Kittie too.

Susie Quatro! Chrissie Hynde!

Anita Roddick was someone I remember greatly admiring in the 80s.

Yes!!!

Julie Burchill wrote an excoriating review of the film version of "How to build a girl" - apparently Moran admitted a propos of the book version that her early journal years hadn't been nearly hell-raising enough to make for a good narrative, so she'd borrowed huge chunks of Burchill's early career (both near contemporaries).

Burchill ended with the fabulous put down: "I am honoured to be grist to Moran's millions."

But he'll, as a teen/young student mid to late 80s, there was so much going on. I remember reading Jong on the zipless fuck in my teens. And yes, there was Thatcher, but also Castle, and a very young Diane Abbott turning thing upside down!

(And Cagney and Lacey - fabulous. And a show that wouldn't get the green light today.)

@JonHammIsMyJamm

She’s a woke embarrassment of a human being

Which is funny considering she got accused of racism for saying she didn't give a shit about the lack of women of colour in Girls. Woke she is not.

" Of course I know more about being a woman than women do".

No surgery  can ever cut off that male mindset.

I think Diana was more a fashion follower than starter, though she helped popularise some looks.

I started secondary in 1981 and my flat pumps were from Clark's. That's how mainstream they were.

I was given the Joy of sex as a wedding present in the 70`s. My mothers cosmopolitan long before that was pretty graphic.

Katherine Hamnett!