Abiu/ re feminism

[Annoyedatyourbs]

that its quite difficult to have healthy debate about the groups of feminism in this specific forum.

It appears a lot of people are quite aggressive in their views within their specific type of feminism and it really closes down any attempt at debate or opportunities to learn.


I'm young and inexperienced and I genuinely want to learn about other perspectives from REAL women but its increasingly difficult here and on twitter.


Would there be any resources / alternatives forums that you all suggest that are varied in their type of feminism but not aggressive in their views / cult like ?

(I love passion and I'm ready for passionate people but I'm specifically talking about people who try and push their pov through demeaning comments and making fun of the other person to attempt to get an upper hand without putting any evidence , thoughtful contribution)

Thank you

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

You don’t need to respond to or care about other people’s language or debating style. Try it out, it’s liberating. Read feminist books from a wide range of eras and authors. Form your own opinions. Test them out by putting them forward. If the style of this forum isn’t for you find another one.

Great advice.

[Apileofballyhoo]

The relationships board is great if you want to see the kind of problems women face in the world.

[Barracker]

I find your post very aggressive and demeaning of others, and rude. You've launched into a forum by insulting its members and calling them names.

I think perhaps you should take a good long look in a mirror since these are traits you apparently disaprove of.

[Longingtolearn]

@TheFormerPorpentinaScamander

I'm actually reading through the entire thread and the examples given and am doing some more research on it.

I can understand better now why separate spaces are still sought after by gender critical feminists but I do still believe heavily in self identity and its importance.

I'm happy to admit I dont know enough about the counter arguments presented to seem articulate enough and I want to go back and look into it further.

That particular thread as my first time on the board was quite interesting though.

[TheFormerPorpentinaScamander]

@Longingtolearn

I'm glad you are learning from it.
I think TWATW but will use their chosen names and pronouns. However I am very very adamant that we need to keep women (not TW) only spaces. My experiences posted on the other thread will explain why

[Longingtolearn]

@Barracker

Am I not allowed to form and express an opinion after viewing the board ?

I've openly admitted my inexperience and I genuinely want to look into things further .

I apologise if you find this aggressive but tbh you've responded with counter active insult that does nothing to help your original comment as its quite hypocritical.

[ShinyFootball]

What topics do you want to discuss?

There are lots of different types of feminism and a lot of disagreement over whether some stances are feminist so maybe avoid those.

Topics like

Abortion
Sex offences and how they are handled
Barriers to women and girls in achieving their potential
Etc etc

What are you interested in?

[Longingtolearn]

@TheFormerPorpentinaScamander

I will definitely have a search and find some of your threads.

I definitely feel with all the media response recently that gender critical feminism is a subtype i have barely touched before.

My own fault and I admit that

But I think its time to look into further as whilst I may not agree with some of the povs itll be nice to "learn about the other side" if you excuse my crude wording as I've very much kept in the the more intersectional spaces and looked into racism and feminism more than others.

[midgebabe]

lomging the whole freedom to chose your own gender identity is to me quite a tricky issue, as in essence it's common to many gender critical feminists and the trans community

Most GC feminists do not accept a feminine gender identity, they want to be respected for who they are rather than have people make assumptions based on their sex....which is a line any transperson probably recognises

The difference arises in where we draw the boundaries between individual identity and group based analysis. As a rule of thumb again it's tricky,as most people most of the time GC or trans, want to treat people as individuals first.

But what GC recognise is that does not happen, and because it does not happen, those of the female sex lose out over and over again to those of the Male sex. And when we analyse this , it seems that women lose out to any Male, independent of their gender identity

[Eveta]

How you are actively getting your own point across by name calling and threats ?

Name calling and threats? The only threats and name calling I see here are the new account twitter trolls stirring the pot for screen grabs.

[midgebabe]

Any quinoa is posh full stop

[ShinyFootball]

Longing to learn

Sorry I may have misunderstood

Is it general feminist topics you are interested in? That was my assumption.

[Longingtolearn]

@BadgertheBodger

I think I do quite agree with you and whilst its hard to swallow I definitely do need more of my views challenged, not only for myself so I can be more confident in what I support but also so I can appreciate some more perspectives.

It is quite scary though and I will admit that aha !

I'm 19 and I know I'm going to say or present things a lot less articulately than some other more experienced women here. Hopefully it'll do me good !

[OceanDweller]

Fair play to you OP. I’m here lurking at the grand old age of 51. Wishing I knew more and trying to get my head around it all. I’m grateful you started this thread as I’m going to read back over it later and see if I can find a pathway forward. When you don’t know what you don’t know it can be very daunting.

[TheFormerPorpentinaScamander]

No my posts on the twaw thread. You dont need to search any of my other random musings. It would be a very boring read

[OceanDweller]

If that EVEN was the OP !!! And the sea bass sounds yummy

[sleepyhead]

I think it's worth some introspection about why female disagreement, argument, "bad" language feels particularly aggressive?

Maybe consider whether you have a gendered response and whether in a male community you might feel words such as "robust" and "direct" were apposite.

I know that i certainly had to unpack a lot of my learned ideas about what was appropriate speech and behaviour from a woman. Really eye opening if youre willing to do the work.

[FloralBunting]

Longing, I have a 19 year old daughter, and for the first bit of her life we raised her in extreme Christian patriarchy. She's now preparing for Uni and full of the same feelings you are, I'm sure. None of the women here hold any animosity towards you for being young, for asking questions or for not agreeing with everything you're told. I'm quite certain you will be treated with the respect of a fellow woman. My main advice would be, in applying 'feminism' to the things in your world, is define your terms, and always ask yourself 'Does this hinder or help the liberation of women and girls?' It's not a tick box approach, you definitely have to engage brain. But it's worthwhile.

[picklemewalnuts]

When I was 19 I didn't think we needed feminism any more- I hadn't realised the constant manhandling was a feminist issue.

I was about 40, 45 when I realised that as my looks had gone, men no longer listened.
About 45 when the FWR board taught me I didn't need to soften my language and pussy foot around. That was also when I realised that certain hard fought rights and safeguards are being undermined, and the authorities don't seem interested.

So it's ok to have loads to learn at 19. You won't get spoon fed here, mind. It's pretty direct.

[BadgertheBodger]

[quote Longingtolearn]@BadgertheBodger

I think I do quite agree with you and whilst its hard to swallow I definitely do need more of my views challenged, not only for myself so I can be more confident in what I support but also so I can appreciate some more perspectives.

It is quite scary though and I will admit that aha !

I'm 19 and I know I'm going to say or present things a lot less articulately than some other more experienced women here. Hopefully it'll do me good ![/quote]
Well then, fair play to you

We do get a lot of posters coming in, throwing unfounded accusations around and then trying desperately to hoover up screenshots for Twitter. This means that many of the regular posters are somewhat fed up with the same tired dance and it can all feel a bit brutal to a newbie.

It’s important to remember that people disagreeing with you aren’t necessarily being aggressive; expect to be robustly challenged and if you want to make any kind of positional statement then you will likely be asked to back up your thoughts.

The lovely thing about this board is that it is predominantly women who post and there is always that focus of seeing things through a feminist lens. There is very little pandering to other user’s feelings, which I personally find refreshing, and a lot of exploration of recurring themes and structural issues relating to how women experience the world.

[FloralBunting]

Quinoa is only posh if you don't pronounce it phonetically and have it on the plate on purpose and not just because you picked up a cheaty bag of microwave rice and didn't read the packet properly...

[Mumoblue]

Start threads about specific issues you want to talk about.
I know the trans stuff often is the most frequent thing being discussed because it's a big topic right now, but you can have discussions about other things.

I personally started a thread a while ago about raising a son from a feminist perspective and I think everyone was very reasonable and there were a lot of viewpoints to consider.

[FransDiner]

I read your op as tell me about groups that aren't culty like this one but on reading it again I'm not sure you meant it that way. That's probably why people think you've called names

[FransDiner]

In answer to your op though I would ask you why you feel the need to offer an opinion if you haven't really formed one.

Why not read loads and let it ferment. Then offer an opinion?

[youkiddingme]

I'm quite new to feminism, or at least since I dabbled in the 70s. And I'm not a veteran of forums either.

There are two things it took me a while to get my head around:
Women bluntly telling the truth or stating their opinion is not aggressive. It's just that we are taught it's not nice. And women must be nice. I have been guilty of confusing forthright opinion for aggression.
Not everyone who posts on here are feminists. Or women. Or well-intentioned. Trolls get removed when moderators find they've caused too much bother but regulars spot them a mile off and they get short thrift before I even realise what's going on most of the time.

I haven't seen any regular poster be curt or rude, except when the person they are discussing with seems blatently disingenuous, or in a humorous fashion. And joining any new group where there are the odd 'in-jokes' or where everyone else is more versed (and often worn down) in feminist issues can feel a little 'cultish'. If you stick around I'll be surprised if you don't see a lot of articulate, passionate, intelligent women having all sorts of relevant debates. Just don't expect them all to give a full chapter on verse on the history and ins and outs of everything you don't know or understand. There's just too much and it goes back too far. But if you ask for a heads up on where to start looking there's always someone willing to point you in the right direction.