Black women in the UK 5 times more likely to die in childbirth or after pregnancy

[OneEpisode]

I decided to sign the petition, on the parliament site.
On 14th June Nancy Kelley retweeted this, with the message “Please sign! #BlackLivesMatter.” She added an emoji ? (But remember I’m well intentioned but technologically inept)
Can someone who can twitter ask Daniel Radcliffe if she needs to be cancelled? The w word was mentioned a lot, and there was a maternity which might be banned too.

Or greater closeness with older female family members and the wider community?

@RoLaren

From the report: 'Previous research has suggested that this inequality of outcome may be partly explained by gestational diabetes during their current pregnancy, medical comorbidities, previous pregnancy problems and inadequate use of antenatal care.'

I thought the main factor was maternal age, in that more black women than white have babies in their 40s, which increases the risks?

"African American women die of pregnancy-related causes at three times the rate for white women, even after accounting for income, education, and access to other resources." Quote from www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/podcast/2019/oct/how-our-health-care-system-treats-black-mothers-differently which seems to imply it is more than just an insurance issue - though that must be a huge factor.

And dont forget that Serena Williams has a terrible time, but presumably her status helped her, ie she was listened to and taken seriously. edition.cnn.com/2018/02/20/opinions/protect-mother-pregnancy-williams-opinion/index.html

I had heard about the differences in maternal health in the US* but wasn't aware it was also and issue in the UK.

*There was a podcast called The Impact, that did a great episode on policy impact on maternal health outcomes.

Thanks for the link to the petition donkeyskin signed and shared.
Hopefully some of the social determinants of health on issues wider than COVID will get looked at too now.

This is an excellent and horrifying in-depth episode ogle woman's hour from last year; not sure how much longer it's up for.

I found the bit where a woman said there can be assumption that black women are great at breastfeeding and so often do not get offered support in hospital pretty shocking too.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0006sg5

Your ineptness certainly led to me signing and sharing. I do actually take your point, but agree this probably isn't the particular fight to pick right now.

BLM are deliberately ignoring black women in favour of black men even though black women are the ones being abused, raped AND murdered by the police/men. BLM was started by black women yet they're being sidelined in their own movement.

Absolutely disgusting but unfortunately not surprising because all men know how to do is shout over women. Black mens problems are caused by other men, so why don't they look at themselves instead? I know it's because they would have to admit that men are the problem and we can't have that, can we? Black women have their own issues to deal with and it's time they were given a voice. Breonna Taylor has only been spoken about now even though she was killed before GF. No one was protesting/ rioting for her.

Dandy Those women who created the BLM organisation identity as "queer" and have chosen to center "queer" lives, especially those of trans-identifying men. Hence the organisation does not have the black mainstream support that the hashtag #blacklivesmatter does.

It might be just who I’m exposed to on social media and algorithms but I see a lot of Black women doing the emotional work around racism (and mainly white women, not white men, following their social media accounts).
Are there black men like eg Rachel Cargle who white men follow?

It's like that in the US too. In terms of whichever fool from Stonewall tweeted about it, well, stopped clock right twice a day and so on. It's still a problem and it still needs to be addressed regardless of the hypocrisy of genderists in only sometimes knowing what a woman is.

@forsucksfake

Dandy Those women who created the BLM organisation identity as "queer" and have chosen to center "queer" lives, especially those of trans-identifying men. Hence the organisation does not have the black mainstream support that the hashtag #blacklivesmatter does.

I see. I didn't realise that. That's a real pity and I can see how the hashtag has more support than the actual organisation. Thank you for letting me know.

BLM has long since escaped the control of the (yep, very much "queer centered") people who started it and has taken on a life beyond what they may have envisioned for it. So don't worry that in supporting BLM stuff you're supporting the TWAW viewpoint - most other people supporting BLM don't support the TWAW stuff either. I'm in the US and so far haven't seen much in the way of gender related stuff at any of the BLM protests this time around.

Aw I was so excited to finally see a feminism post talking about something that wasn't trans issues but then so disappointed when I saw it was actually just a way of using a truly horrifying and upsetting statistic to talk trans issues again. Mumsnet makes me feel like feminism is something I don't want to be involved with anymore because the way it is portrayed here. Not inclusive of other feminist views, and so much so that the feminism thread seems to exclusively talk about trans issues. Or the odd post suggesting that black lived matter is a threat to feminism because women are oppressed too/more. We can't come together to fight for equality if so much energy is focused on shutting other people out. (I realise I'm probably going to be destroyed for saying this, but couldn't sit and be upset without at least saying something).

Hi edwards stick around, people have been nice to me despite my flaws. I personally don’t want to fight for equality. If black women are the group at highest risk of pre-eclampsia as indicated in some surveys, I would like the specific tests and care for that condition targeted at them. Not equally spread across all adults and children.

Hi edwardson I don't think any woman here wants to destroy anyone.

One question for you that I hope you will answer: How can you talk about feminism without a definition of what a woman is?

I think there is a point to be made here and that is in order to address inequalities of maternal morbidity for black women, we need to clearly identify this affects women who are black (and other minorities that might be affected). We can’t just say ‘people who are pregnant’ because maternal mortality isn’t simply down to pregnancy but a range of factors most of which impact outside pregnancy. These factors cannot be considered let alone addressed without knowing what a women is.

Or edwardson what do you think about the NHS’s treatment protocols for pre-eclampsia, and how that fits with employment rights, statutory sick leave and maternity leave rights?

And recording data that relates to women as a sex.

My colleague started wfh long before Coronavirus because her wife had preeclampsia, and they had an older child. That support isn’t available from all employers and in all roles, so there is an intersection of class/wealth too.

You can never take class and relative wealth out of the picture.

Edwardson am sorry you feel that way but if you read the discussion it quickly became much more nuanced and engaged on the petition. Discussion works and makes things better.

I think those are all valid points, I just don't necessarily agree that the best way to address every feminist issue is to insist on defining women first. The initial post was about black women, so there wasn't anything (as far as I can tell).

There isn't a perfect definition of black accepted by everyone, but if every fight for racial equality was about determining who "counted" as black, I imagine the fight for equality would be held back. Not that those conversations shouldn't happen, they should (in both issues of feminism and race, that conversation about how you define it are important) just that maybe there's room for other discussions too.

And sorry @OneEpisode I don't know much about the protocols

I’ve just realised that the Americans on the thread may know preeclampsia as toxemia, which my UK spellchecker is struggling with. Funny language American English.