MN editorial on how wonderful surrogacy is

[anothernotherone]

This is on the MN homepage: www.mumsnet.com/pregnancy/surrogacy

Isn't this a massively controversial issue related to the exploitation of the female body as an incubator?

Are MN picking sides on a massively controversial issue, or has whoever's written and selected this rosey whitewash coverage of surrogacy not engaged their brain fully?

I’ve just read it and all I can say is “eww”
Agree that’s its very one-sided, making surrogacy looks like a rosary basket of rainbows
Even the word “surrogacy” makes me cringe a bit. I feel “Rent-A-Womb” is more accurate

Why should surrogacy be banned??

Are you trying to say that it’s not a big deal if you already had a child? That’s rude and lacks compassion.

Obviously not.

So what’s your point then? I’m not really interested in conversations that imply one persons pain or disappointment is worse than someone else’s. Miscarriages and infertility are painful and difficult, whether you have a child already or not.

The point being made here, @decomposingcomposers, is that the pain of infertility does not trump the pain of the child deliberately cut off from his or her biological mother. It’s deemed “callous” on this thread to say surrogacy is wrong. I find it utterly callous that the rights and feelings of the child produced by surrogacy are so utterly ignored.

I was raised by my biological mother and, despite the fact that our relationship has now broken down, I am extremely grateful that in my early years I was loved and nurtured by her. Unfortunately the same is not true of my biological father who sold his sperm for money and didn’t even know of my existence until recently. I am telling you that being deprived of contact with one of your own parents is a lifelong burden.

Why should surrogacy be banned??

If surrogacy is not banned, then the surrogacy system has to provide for all of the failed transactions. The disabled children, the ones that are no longer wanted, and the women who sustain injuries.

Why doesn't it do that already? Why do people have to be forced to do the right thing?

So what’s your point then? I’m not really interested in conversations that imply one persons pain or disappointment is worse than someone else’s. Miscarriages and infertility are painful and difficult, whether you have a child already or not.

I'm sorry you read a lack of empathy and compassion in my post. DP became infertile after DD was born, watching what she went through was impossibly tough, I truly meant no disrespect.

SimplySteveRedux

Thank you for that. I have really hideous complicated hormone issues that have blighted my life and completely disrupted my family plans, in my culture it’s very common to have large families and I grew up in an extended one that I loved growing up and imagined I would have. Miscarriages are truly horrendous things to experience. In prioritising those I believe are most affected by surrogacy, I am not ignoring or dismissing the pain of infertility, I live it myself. I do not believe that distress and feelings of longing should mean that you get to hire out another woman’s body, potentially affecting her life for long after the child is born ( like in my case ) and then separating mother and child. I chose not to do it, despite the fact I knew I would likely not be accepted for adoption at the age I wanted to because I was too ill.

SimplySteveRedux I also had a difficult decision to make when I was older and became pregnant, only to have my health deteriorate and the foetus not grow properly. It was and remains the most painful thing I’ve experienced, made worse by the horrible lack of compassion in the care I received. Please don’t read my objection to surrogacy as a lack of understanding or thought for those that experience horrible pain with infertility, miscarriages or terminations. I’m just prioritising differently to you.

Yes we do, you’re writing your thoughts here and have only one focus. We have every idea, since you’ve contributed quite a few comments. What a silly thing to say!

What are my views on surrogacy then?

Please don’t read my objection to surrogacy as a lack of understanding or thought for those that experience horrible pain with infertility, miscarriages or terminations.

That's not coming across in your posts at all.

That's not coming across in your posts at all.

Really? Despite expressly saying it repeatedly, despite sharing painful experiences of my own ( which you ignore, where’s your empathy?! ).

You just ignore what people say constantly on these boards. You’re a serial derailer and wilfully and deliberately misrepresent others. In future I won’t reply directly to you, it’s a waste of my time.

Really? Despite expressly saying it repeatedly, despite sharing painful experiences of my own ( which you ignore, where’s your empathy?! ).

You've only just spoken about your situation and expressed sympathy for others in your last couple of posts.

And don't talk to me about my empathy. Repeatedly on here you've made comments about my lack of comprehension, writing in capitals to spell it out clearly for me etc - have you not stopped to think about why that might be?

How about showing some empathy yourself instead of being quite so quick to remark on what you consider to be a lack of comprehension, or ability to communicate.

You’re a serial derailer and wilfully and deliberately misrepresent others

I comment on what others have said. It's just that you seem to think you are the thread police and get to set the parameters on what you think posters are allowed to say. Other people have raised.points and I have commented on them. That's how this works.

There is an unpleasant implication from some of the posters on this thread that women who object to surrogacy have no personal experience of infertility, assuming that we would put all our moral objections aside if we were faced with a future without biological children.

It's insulting and it's wrong.

I'm not comfortable with a demand that posters have to constantly make qualifying statements.
We don't have to spam the thread with placating statements of regret, sympathy etc. It's just not necessary between assertive adults.

I'm not comfortable with a demand that posters have to constantly make qualifying statements
We don't have to spam the thread with placating statements of regret, sympathy etc.

I think if you are directly commenting on a personal story you should at least acknowledge how painful that situation is.

Having children is not a right. You are not entitled to biological children, regardless of your personal health situation. Trying to emotionally manipulate the situation and the intentions of others, is unacceptable. I find it incredibly insulting to those who suffer ill health.

This

I see surrogacy as not dissimilar to the likes of..selling a kidney. And as such, it should be treat the same. Its actually worse, as the baby..suffers from being seperated from its actual mother. A kidney would not suffer being seperated from the body.

Ugh, even speaking about it makes me angry really

Though oddly enough, I do also have a thought in the back of my mind that if, say my sister, was infertile I might offer to do it. But thats extremely different to rich people paying poor women to be incubators. Which tends to be how it goes.

Not impressed with this advertisement mind.

My posts are not showing here?

Hmm, two posts disappeared when I tried to put them.

I was tyring to say, I realise my last post was worded badly. I am not equating human life with an organ. Just that the situations are kind of similar. Though, selling an organ only affects you, where surrogacy affects another lfie too, so surrgacy is worse, IMO really. Yet it is applauded, while selling organs is looked down upon/illegal.

But altruistic organ donation isn't looked down on.

I personally don't think that payment should be allowed for organ donation or surrogacy - we aren't a collection of spare parts for sale and the risk of exploitation is just too high.

But if you choose to do it solely to help someone else, so long as safeguards are in place, then I think that's a wonderful gift to another person.

I think even altruistic surrogacy has its issues to be honest. Noone seems to think about the baby, in these situations. Then theres..if the child is born with disabilities and the surrogate parents back out, if the woman ends up with birth injuries that affect her for life (like me) and so on. Some may see it as a gift, I see it as exploitation still really.

Though as I said, I am conflicted as in the back of my mind, I do think I would consider it if my sister was infertile. But only for her, noone else, regardless of how much they wanted it.

A donated organ doesn't have feeling and rights like a baby born of surrogacy of donation will, so I don't think we can compare the two. Yet again the consequences for the children/adults of the future are overlooked because a more immediate problem i.e. lack of child can be "fixed" by adults being nice to each other, or coming to an approved arrangement.

BatShite

I think organ donation carries many of the same risks to the donor as surrogacy does to the mother.

Obviously the biggest difference is that there is a baby to consider. I would like to read research though on the effects of surrogacy on the child and as they grow into adulthood.

There's another thread running about a Canadian same sex couple who used a sperm donor to conceive a child and the breakdown of that family unit and ensuing custody battles (it seems very complex and this is just an outline). My point being that there are frequently very difficult decisions and choices to be made wherever children are concerned. Is surrogacy any more difficult or challenging for the children than any other parent/child relationship potentially is?

I would definitely be a surrogate for either of my children needed it. Outside of them? I don't know because that's where I start to question things more, but that would also be the case with organ donation. Without hesitation I would donate to either of my children and then would consider it for a wider circle outside of them but would definitely question it more.

Well, not everyone who wants a child through surrogacy is infertile first of all, but since we're discussing infertility....

I do think society has a problem with how infertility is framed which it would be much healthier if we could address rather than exploiting women and selling children. Women are still somehow seen as 'less than' if they don't have children and when I was suffering through 7 years of infertility, everyone was always pushing me to the next step of 'treatment' or a 'fix'. I eventually gave up when I decided I ethically didn't agree with using donor eggs.

I wish that I had been put in touch with some amazing childless women who could have shown me that there is life beyond the desire for a child. One woman did say to me something along the lines of 'yes, I really longed for a baby in my late 30s and early 40s, I think it was biological, but that intensity of feeling passed and now I am happy'.

Of the women I met when going through my infertility journey, some have remained childless and they are the happiest of all my friends. None of them has a life without children in it, they are the favoured beloved 'Aunts' to many of their friends children. One friend in particular regularly has her nephews and nieces to stay (her lucky sister) and is in the lives of many other children in a meaningful way. I can already see that my DD1 will always want to spend time with her over me and I can see a time when DD1 might confide in her over me. It's a different relationship. Because I have two kids and no family support, I could never make time to be that kind of adult presence in the life of so many children. I'm a tiny bit jealous sometimes, to be honest. It's not the same as being a biological parent but I often wonder if it's actually better. She is very happy - she has way more money, an interesting rewarding career, and lots of lovely holidays. And when she wants children in her life there is a line of children eager to spend time with their fun Auntie (who isn't busy doing all the shitwork to provide clean clothes / food).

I think there is a biological drive to have children, but if women can't I really don't think it's healthy for anyone to have this attitude that they must have a child no matter the costs. It is possible to be in the life of children in a meaningful way even if you don't have them yourself.