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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

John Boyne's new book 'My brother's name is Jessica'.

428 replies

Helmetbymidnight · 14/04/2019 21:48

John Boyne (author of boy in the striped pajamas) is bringing out a book called My brother's name is Jessica, and this is simply not acceptable, apparently.

He's written an article here:

www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/john-boyne-why-i-support-trans-rights-but-reject-the-word-cis-1.3843005?fbclid=IwAR0WqWp2a3dIu-4pxDKS7k9XQO5lZR4PCKh_AFhAeTRoZMm0TmuiCBvoUjQ

Doc and co are going nuts at him. Not as nuts as they would if it was written by a straight woman, I imagine, but even so.

It's about time the world of books got stuck into this debate. They've been very slow on this one.

OP posts:
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Cismyfatarse1 · 16/04/2019 11:55

Love that Mail article. The character is "misgendered". How on earth can you misgender a fictional character?

Lamaha · 16/04/2019 12:28

YA readers are known for being spoiled brats up in arms against every writer who dares to even lightly touch any of their holy narratives and stray from the official dogma. As someone mentioned upthread, there's the whole thing about sensitivity readers -- I guess John Boyle's publisher should have used on of these!

I used to be part of a writer's forum which is full of woke people. One of the wokest is a woman who writes porn, is a huge trans-ally, and has recently researched and written a book (novel) about incels. She kept going on about how horrified she was about incels.
She writes with absolute disgust about the misogyny of incels. One day she will discover the misogyny of TRAs is just as disgusting.

Just read the book's reviews on Goodreads. Wow, the pile-on is massive! Lots of wailing about "cis people shouldn't be centred on a book about trans" and "we already have so much suffering to go through, why this?"

bethy15 · 16/04/2019 12:46

*Great to see you here bethy15. The trans issue and the growing disquiet with "repeat the mantra or STFU" has drawn all kinds of people to Mumsnet, and particularly to this Feminism chat part.

Once people start thinking about what's involved in the gender identity ideology, they often end up thinking "but hang on, isn't that misogynist/homophobic/sexist/racist/massively intolerant?". So this place attracts all sorts.

If you want to have a discussion about this issue with a diverse group of people, many of them very well-informed and capable of good analysis (ie people other than me), stick around.*

Thank you, and everyone else for the welcome!

I'm not surprised that this type of thing pushes people back in their thoughts. I've had such differing views before, but then my eyes were opened. I see it quite a bit, and also I wonder at those who feel the same but are too scared of the flaming that will come if they said how they really felt and how many there may be.

I'll definitely stick around here thanks, I think right now it's important.

NotTerfNorCis · 16/04/2019 12:51

Is it just me or does this suggested rewrite on Goodreads spoil the synopsis?

Sam Waver has always idolised his big sister. Unlike Sam, Jessica seems to have life sorted - she's kind, popular, amazing at football, and girls are falling over themselves to date her. The only problem? Nobody, not even Sam, knows that Jessica is actually a girl.

Sam is clearly the focal character here. Sam doesn't know Jason thinks of himself as female and wants to be called Jessica. So 'sister' and 'she' make no sense.

Unless any story about trans people has to be told from the point of view of a trans person.

Next step: only trans people are allowed to write about trans people.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 16/04/2019 13:02

Good to hear from you, bethy15. Glad I seem to have directed you to the right place. Smile

Lamaha · 16/04/2019 13:08

Hmmm. from the IT article link above:

“For the record, I do not believe that the trans community bears any relationship to, or any responsibility for, the actions of online trolls. As a gay man, I stand 100 per cent behind all trans people. I respect them as brave pioneers, I applaud their determination to live authentic lives despite the abuse they also receive, and I will always do so.”

I think you will find, John, that the larger trans community bears all the responsibility. What you have experienced is exactly what women who stand up for their rights, who refuse the appellation cis, and who do not want to share their spaces with transwomen, are experiencing.
Join us here on Mumsnet to discuss this. And apologise to Glinner once again.

LangCleg · 16/04/2019 13:11

Told you he'd cling onto the fairy tale he's told himself about the "trans community" rather than even start to consider the views of women.

His only beef is that people were mean to him.

Ereshkigal · 16/04/2019 13:33

I'll put money on it being cancelled eresh

Yes, me too. Unless he grovels sufficiently before tomorrow.

AlwaysComingHome · 16/04/2019 13:39

She writes with absolute disgust about the misogyny of incels. One day she will discover the misogyny of TRAs is just as disgusting.

For consistency shouldn’t only incels write about incels?

This is literal violence. She is literally denying their existence.

STICK TO YOUR LANE! Write only about writers exactly like yourself!

AlwaysComingHome · 16/04/2019 13:43

How on earth can you misgender a fictional character?

Have you read The Wasp Factory?

Fazackerley · 16/04/2019 13:55

So where are all his trans mates standing up for him on Twitter?

SarahTancredi · 16/04/2019 13:57

So where are all his trans mates standing up for him on Twitter?
Good question.

Could it be that they care more about being able to use the situation to claim bigger victim status as a result than they do about someone who stood up for them.

Datun · 16/04/2019 13:58

“I don’t consider myself a cis man; I consider myself a man,” he wrote. “For while I will happily employ any term that a person feels best defines them, whether that be transgender, non-binary or gender fluid to name but a few, I reject the notion that someone can force an unwanted term onto another.”

In response, Aoife Martin, a director of Transgender Equality Network Ireland, wrote that the term “cis” is merely a descriptor like “straight” or “white”. “Boyne, whether he likes it or not, is a cis man speaking from a position of cis privilege,” she wrote.

John Boyne, if you're reading, what you have to understand is that transactivism is a men's rights movement. Gender dysphoria is a mental condition, which bears little relationship to transgenderism and none to transactivism.

You have failed to separate the two. Both internally and presumably in your book.

And the people who are subjecting you to this abuse? Those are the very people, the very people, who are demanding access to vulnerable women and children. And will threaten if they don't get it.

Framing trans people as oppressed and everyone else as the oppressor is a master stroke.

But who has been forced to delete all their social media, and been subjected to awful abuse and harassment? Who has been told to watch themselves in public?

What does it feel like to be told that constitutes your oppression of transwomen?

AncientLights · 16/04/2019 13:59

Calpop no, the Globe Theatre will not have to close because there aren't any dodgy kings to play MacBeth. It will have to close because that bastard William Shakespear wasn't a Scottish king himself and so should never have had the temerity to write that play in the first place. Nor should he have written 'Hamlet', not being a Danish prince. And don't get me started on 'Midsummer Night's Dream'.

Datun · 16/04/2019 13:59

I forgot the attachment.

John Boyne's new book 'My brother's name is Jessica'.
Ereshkigal · 16/04/2019 14:05

Yes, I agree the attachment is an important thing to include.

Fazackerley · 16/04/2019 14:07

Ooh I had forgotten that about the wasp factory. Proper chilling.

Ereshkigal · 16/04/2019 14:11

I do think it might have been nice for the Mail to introduce their readership to the concept of "cis", a prefix they'll all doubtless be eager to adopt to describe themselves.

Datun · 16/04/2019 14:16

Yes, I think it would be very useful for every single male Daily Mail reader to know that when they are addressed as cis, they are being defined as 'not a woman' (who identifies as a man).

And that by dint of being cis, they have privilege over every trans person in existence. And they have to accept this or else, and shut the fuck up if they disagree. Because that's what having privilege looks like - being threatened and abused to STFU.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 16/04/2019 14:29

Which way was Aoife transitioning? I can’t really tell.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 16/04/2019 14:32

lord

Its a shame the picture is black and white....otherwise you might be able to glean the answer depending on the colours worn

Datun · 16/04/2019 14:36

Boyne, whether he likes it or not, is a cis man speaking from a position of cis privilege,” she wrote.

I'm guessing transitioned to female?

MadamBatty · 16/04/2019 14:42

Aoife is quite obviously a Ladyee you Cis bullies. #literal violence

Annasgirl · 16/04/2019 14:43

Is it wrong to feel such schadenfreude for John?

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