Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

A Day Using Restaurant Toilets

32 replies

AppleJane · 07/04/2019 16:48

Hello everyone. I’ve only recently discovered Mumsnet - and that it’s not just for people with small children!

I stumbled across this section of the forum simply by browsing the talk index. What an eye opener that has been.

My life philosophy is ‘do what makes you happy as long as no-one else gets hurt’.

In a very short space of time I have gone from wondering what all the fuss is about to being deeply concerned after reading some of the threads on here. Thank you for your excellent and informative posts!

Yesterday I went out with friends for a light lunch, a day of activities and then for a proper evening meal.

The café we went to for our lunch was in a busy city shopping area and they were obviously experiencing problems with people popping in to use the loo and not staying to eat.

It was an independent place, staff were pleasant and there was a nice atmosphere.

I went to use the toilet and there were 3 doors:

The first door read ‘urinal and gender neutral cubicles’

The second one said ‘baby changing facilities’

The third door said ‘gender neutral cubicles’

All of the doors had an additional sign saying please ask staff for key – customer use only. I saw a number of customers pushing at the locked doors - the sign wasn’t obvious.

A woman was in the process of locking the door reading ‘gender neutral cubicles’ and presuming I would want to use the toilets that didn’t also contain a urinal, she offered to give me the key if I promised to hand it in afterwards. The key had a huge fob that wouldn’t fit in my pocket.

I unlocked the door and inside was a little area with two sinks and a hand dryer and two cubicles. The cubicles were not floor to ceiling – just the standard doors with gaps above and below.

I didn’t think to lock the ‘outer’ door, I just entered one of the cubicles. I’d previously used a gender neutral toilet and there was urine all over the floor so I was happy to find this loo clean.

I heard someone else enter the other cubicle. Now I had a dilemma because I couldn’t lock the outer door while someone was in there and waiting for them was going to look a little weird so I stalled inside my cubicle until I heard them exit theirs.

As I came out I saw a man’s back going out of the main door. I recognised him as a customer sitting with another man and two women at a table near to ours.

I returned to my table and explained to my friends that I had the ‘key’ if they needed the loo. When they had finished, I locked the outer door marked ‘gender neutral cubicles’ and returned the key to the counter.

A member of staff took it from me and placed it on top of another key. I couldn’t see any difference between the two fobs so it’s possible there were 3 keys that could open (and lock) all 3 doors.

In the evening we went to a chain restaurant and toilets were labelled ‘women’ and ‘men’. A woman was using a toilet with the door wide open and watching her two toddlers, both naked from the waist down, who were giggling and ignoring her pleas to stop running up and down the sink area!

I personally think the café facilities are unsafe for everyone using them because of the key situation and the cubicles with gaps. It also felt to me that men now had extra cubicles to use as I wouldn’t have chosen to enter the ‘urinals and gender neutral cubicles’ area.

The experience in the restaurant reminded me how complacent some people still are and how we all have a different concept of ‘safe space’.

OP posts:
AppleJane · 08/04/2019 11:56

Don't get me wrong, I hate the idea of gender neutral toilets but did this really happen

Yes it did.

I think using a ridiculous scenario like that makes the argument for sex segregated toilets seem ridiculous

Could you explain further? I’m not ‘using a ridiculous scenario’. I was faithfully describing as accurately as I could my two experiences of toilets that happened in the same day and took me by surprise.

Surely the evening toilet situation highlights that children are totally unaware of their surroundings and possible danger?

I believe there are many women who are just dealing with their day to day life and probably haven’t given much thought to the safety of toilets full stop.

If it helps, I will give a few more details:

It was between 7.30pm and 8pm at night

The restaurant was extremely noisy to the point that I had to take headache tablets before I left

The woman’s toddlers were both boys, possibly twins, aged at a guess about 3

The women’s toilets were surprisingly quiet, I didn’t see anyone else in there at the time

The mother looked frazzled and tired – I didn’t see her in the restaurant so I don’t know if she was with anyone who should really have gone and helped her. I didn’t see a buggy.

Is it possible that the mother had asked the boys to go pee in the cubicle next to hers?

Is it possible that the boys were only acting in the same way that they would do at home?

I feel like this is all missing the point really. I don’t want to judge this woman, I was merely showing how for many of us we can look into the future and see how mixed toilets are unsafe whereas there are many people who are literally unable to see danger right in front of their faces and probably need forward thinking people to keep them safe!

I know what I mean in my head but I’m not sure if I’m explaining myself very well Smile

OP posts:
ineedaknittedhat · 08/04/2019 13:03

Do they really want half the population to stay at home and stop spending money in their lousy shops?

They deserve to go out of business if they keep going with this rubbish.

Woke shops - expect to see your profits fall.

Lamaha · 08/04/2019 13:40

Possibly it will really take a women's boycott. Not of the toilets: of the shops and restaurants, museums and concert halls that subscribe to this nonsense.

Pinkpanther473 · 08/04/2019 17:31

I don’t know if any other mum of toddlers can relate, when you are in your period and your toddler is loudly going “ew” and asking questions/giving comments about your pad/periods while you try and give a calm age appropriate response aware that everyone is listening.
There’s nothing gender neutral about periods, and sorting out periods and toddler childcare at the same time is definitely not what I want to do in any gender neutral space.

bettybeans · 08/04/2019 18:18

For all of the above reasons and more I absolutely do not ever wish to share toilets with men. I'm not crazy about undignified experiences in front of women I don't know either but at least when that happens I don't feel unsafe, and that's the crucial point.

Between difficult periods, teen dramas and heartbreaks, feeling faint, stomach upsets, nose bleeds, being a little too drunk and needing a few minutes, morning sickness, minor first aid situations requiring removal of clothing, mental health related breakdowns of friends, a public toilet miscarriage, the occasional hiding-for-a-cry or hiding-from-a-man episodes, a million toilets with cubicles that don't lock properly, the occasional emergency breastfeed (I know, yuck right), the many many times I've had to get changed in a women's loo, and then the trials and tribulations with going to the loo with small children, I've had plenty of vulnerable life experiences that tell me I'm not ever going to be in a place where I'm comfortable with people other than women.

bettybeans · 08/04/2019 18:23

Oh, and men's toilets do fucking stink. There is absolutely no exaggeration in saying that, or pointing out that there's usually pee everywhere. It's not even like it's unusual. I don't want to have to clean up before either me or my children use toilets. I don't want to stand in it. I don't want my children to stand in it or touch it when they're too little to sit properly on adult toilets and have to use their hands. A million things. Just no. It makes me angry even having to spell all of this out.

rocketromano · 08/04/2019 19:10

I had my first experience of mixed sex toilets this week. Into toilets, 2 cubicles, one male one female, side by side. Floor to ceiling but very flimsy lock. Shared sink area. I felt very uncomfortable at being in a state of undress knowing a man could be in next cubicle- also always risk of young child opening the door when I’m not ready.
Not impressed - won’t go back and I’ll add tripadvisor review highlighting this.
What would have made more sense would have been lock on outer door, one cubicle also suitable for disabled access (neither were) and baby changing area (also missing) rather than mixed sex cramped cubicles. Small cafe so one all access toilet would have been sufficient

New posts on this thread. Refresh page