Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

BBC complaints

65 replies

Binglebong · 18/01/2019 18:51

A while ago I complained about a very unequal article on the BBC. The excellent posters in here helped me reply to their answer (sorry can't find that thread.) Ivd now had a reply to my reply.

Thank you for writing again and please accept our apologies that it has taken us so long to respond.

The report set out some of the background to the debate and views on both sides. It was made clear that views are very strongly held and the debate is divided and bitter at times.

We think it is reasonable to describe the occasions where those with different views have confronted each other publicly as ‘clashes’. It was not attempt to apportion blame but to indicate to viewers that there are strong differences of opinion and as the footage showed, on occasion the police have intervened. Nicola Williams was interviewed in connection with her role for Fair Play for Women and not in connection with her research work, and her caption made clear her interest to viewers.

If you are still dissatisfied, you can contact the BBC’s Executive Complaints Unit (ECU). The ECU is stage 2 of the BBC’s complaints process. Details of the BBC complaints process are available atwww.bbc.co.uk/complaints/handle-complaint/where you can read the BBC’s full complaints framework.

If you wish to contact the ECU please write to it directly within 20 working days of receiving this reply. Please explain to it why you believe there may have been a potential breach of standards or other significant issue for it to investigate. You can [email protected], or write to: Executive Complaints Unit, BBC, Broadcast Centre, London W12 7TQ. Please include the case reference number we have provided in this reply.

OP posts:
ChattyLion · 28/01/2019 09:40

This thread is helpful, but there may be others too: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3296433-BBC-Bias-Collecting-Examples-here?msgid=83065425#83065425

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 28/01/2019 09:56

not shamelessly place marking because want to see the response from the BBC

definitely not

Binglebong · 28/01/2019 20:40

On past experience you will have to be very patient Bernard...

OP posts:
Binglebong · 30/01/2019 18:02

Received today:

Thank you for contacting the Executive Complaints Unit.

I’m writing to acknowledge receipt of your message and to let you know someone from the unit will be in touch with a further response within 20 working days of the date of your email, or 35 working days in the case of more complex complaints.

OP posts:
Binglebong · 12/02/2019 13:48

So I got a reply. Sorry I cant copy and paste (incidently because it's a pdf the Ofcom link doesn't work either.

The comment about "the women's side (I assume you mean this to refer to the non transwoman shown" gave me a fair idea of how objective it would be.

What now?

BBC complaints
BBC complaints
OP posts:
Binglebong · 12/02/2019 13:59

@PencilsInSpace Sorry to ping you but I wanted to make sure you saw this.

OP posts:
BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 12/02/2019 14:49

Fucking hell, that's an offensive reply isn't it?

This

I think “clash” is a reasonable means of characterising the intense disagreement between the two groups shown and I don’t believe it precludes the possibility that one side acted with more violence (or provocation) than the other

made my blood boil

naughty Maria Mc, provoking the nice trans ladies

when I complained about Sophie Cooke on Newsnight I got back a reply referring to Sophie throughout as a woman, same regarding Jane Fae, and totally failing to see why the sex of these people could be relevent when discussing women's rights

I really think that if our national broadcaster is now proceeding on the basis that humans can change sex, they should have notified someone.

any how....

as for what next - Ofcom if you've got the stomach for it?

Binglebong · 12/02/2019 17:59

I'm happy to go as far as possible with this one, I'm disgusted with that reply. Again I need help writing it. My brain is just fog at the moment.

OP posts:
BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 12/02/2019 18:54

trying to imply that the actions of each side are comparable

as mentioned above, it smacks of Trump

edition.cnn.com

"I think there is blame on both sides," Trump said during a contentious back-and-forth with reporters in the lobby of his Midtown Manhattan building.

"What about the 'alt-left' that came charging at, as you say, the 'alt-right,' do they have any semblance of guilt?" Trump asked. "What about the fact they came charging with clubs in hands, swinging clubs, do they have any problem? I think they do."

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 12/02/2019 18:58

and here's the BBC covering that 'clash', with weirdly enough, quotes from Emily Gorcenski of 'Mumsnet are fascists' fame

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44619374

BBC complaints
PencilsInSpace · 13/02/2019 08:56

Just seen this, I'll have a proper look later today when I have more time.

Is there any way at all you can C&P the text from the PDF? Or failing that could you make the images bigger? I can barely read it.

Binglebong · 13/02/2019 13:50

I've not found a way I'm afraid. Having to work on my phone so dont have many options. I'll keep trying.

OP posts:
PencilsInSpace · 16/02/2019 18:23

Sorry I haven't come back to this sooner Binglebong.

I'd really like to help but I honestly can barely read the images and really need it in a text format to work with. You could try finding another app that will let you open it in an editable format or convert it to a word doc and then C&P from there, or if that's not possible you (or someone with better eyesight than me!) could just type it out.

I can just about make out that they have referred to the BBC guidelines on Accuracy so have a look at those and also any other guidelines they haven't considered. There are guidelines on impartiality for example.

Ofcom is the next step, The relevant complaints procedure is here (PDF link) which you can find on this page of their site. They say you have 20 working days from the date of your BBC final response to bring a complaint. Assuming you got this on 12/02/19 you have until 12/03/19 to send something.

PencilsInSpace · 16/02/2019 18:32

Also worth mentioning, Ofcom will look at your complaint against their own broadcasting code, not the BBC guidelines, so it's worth familiarising yourself with those as well.

I get the impression they don't really expect people to persist with BBC complaints to this stage which is why BBC get away with so much shit.

Imnobody4 · 17/02/2019 17:02

From Saturday's Times
The prevalence of soft news and “clickbait” on the BBC website will be examined during the biggest independent review ever taken of the corporation’s news output.

The media regulator Ofcom is investigating how the BBC is “adapting to the changing news environment”, including online. The review, to be published by the end of the year, will also monitor the BBC’s impartiality and analyse whether it remains trusted by audiences.
A BBC spokeswoman said: “Ofcom has yet to confirm the terms of reference for its review of the BBC’s news and current affairs output.

“The Cairncross review strongly supported the BBC’s role in providing high-quality, trusted and impartial news. It’s vital that people of all ages have access to impartial news which is relevant to them, and we provide younger audiences with a wide range of stories.”

Ofcom will assess the range and depth of news content across BBC TV, radio and online. A spokesman for the watchdog said: “We too want to see a healthy, vibrant news market that supports high-quality journalism.”

Binglebong · 17/02/2019 21:00

Finally sorted it. So for the next stage?

BBC News at Six, BBC One, 18 October 2018

Thank you for your email, in which you raised your complaint about a report in the above programme. You said a reference to incidents at events in Hyde Park and Bristol as clashes between people with opposing views was inaccurate and misleading, as the women involved had not been seeking confrontation.

We considered your complaint against the BBC’s guidelines on Accuracy. These refer to “due” accuracy – what is “adequate and appropriate” in the context of the output – and stress the importance of not misleading audiences on a material matter. The section of the report which caused you concern showed footage of two events. In the first, someone is shown being grappled by an individual in a hood before a second person strikes them. The second shows police attending a demonstration outside a doorway, and people attempting to enter as others with banners appear to impede the entrance. This is what was said:

Lucy Manning: Those with opposing views have clashed. Hyde Park last year, Bristol this year. The Government insists there are no plans to change women-only spaces, but even an MP who backs reform thinks questions about the impact on women’s refuges and prisons must be discussed.

You have objected to the use of the word “clashed” on the grounds those on “the women’s side” (I assume you mean this to refer to the non-Trans women shown) were not seeking a confrontation. I don’t however believe the word would be taken to mean that they were. In this context “clash” describes the outcome of a meeting of strongly opposing views; it does not assign any motive to those involved or suggest they sought this or any outcome. I think “clash” is a reasonable means of characterising the intense disagreement between the two groups shown and I don’t believe it precludes the possibility that one side acted with more violence (or provocation) than the other. Accordingly I don’t believe viewers would have been misled as to what was being shown, or the matter at hand – disagreements between Trans activists and some women’s groups over self-identification legislation. Those arguments were fully explored in the piece. The contribution which immediately followed this was from Jess Phillips MP, who put it that allegations of Transphobia were stifling legitimate debate about women-only spaces.

You dispute the assertion that there have been press reports of incidents on both sides, which you consider to be misogynistic and inappropriate. Our investigations focus on material broadcast or published by the BBC, whereas it seems to me that this relates to what was put to you in correspondence (rather than anything in the piece itself) so it was not open to me to consider this point.

I appreciate you are unlikely to agree with my decision but I hope I have explained why I do not believe you have identified a breach in standards and why I am not able to uphold your complaint. If you would like to make any further comments please let me have them by 26 February. There is no provision for further appeal against this decision within the BBC. However, it’s open to you to approach Ofcom with your complaint. You can find details of how to contact Ofcom and the procedures it will apply here. Alternatively, you can write to Ofcom, Riverside House, 2a Southwark Bridge Road, London SE1 9HA, or telephone either 0300 123 3333 or 020 7981 3040. Ofcom acknowledges all complaints received, but will not normally write back to individual complainants with the outcome of its considerations.

Yours sincerely

Richard Hutt Complaints Director

OP posts:
Binglebong · 17/02/2019 21:03

That's very interesting, thank you Ima

OP posts:
PencilsInSpace · 18/02/2019 18:48

Suggestion for final comments to the BBC (deadline 26/02/19):

Thank you for your response to my complaint. I understand your response is final and I intend to approach Ofcom, however I would also like to make the following further comments in closing:

The guidelines on Accuracy state that where the BBC is unable to witness events firsthand they should talk to first hand sources and, where necessary, corroborate their evidence (3.4.1), that the BBC must check and verify information, facts and documents, where required to achieve due accuracy (3.4.2) and that when using user-generated content 'should take reasonable steps, depending on how it is to be used and if necessary to achieve due accuracy, to seek verification.' Further, the BBC 'must take special care over how [they] use any material that [they] suspect has been supplied by a member of a lobby group or organisation with a vested interest in the story, rather than a disinterested bystander.' (3.4.3)

The footage from Hyde Park is labelled as having been supplied by Miranda Yardley, yet there is no indication that Yardley was contacted, or Maria MacLachlan - the woman who was assaulted, or indeed anyone else who was there.

The footage from Bristol is labelled as having been supplied by Julie Bindel. Again, there is no indication that either she, or anyone else in attendance, was approached for comment or to verify what the footage showed.

Both groups - the trans rights activists and the women attempting to meet - clearly had vested interests in the events depicted in both clips.

Therefore I do not believe that these parts of the guidelines were followed.

You say, 'The section of the report which caused you concern showed footage of two events. In the first, someone is shown being grappled by an individual in a hood before a second person strikes them. The second shows police attending a demonstration outside a doorway, and people attempting to enter as others with banners appear to impede the entrance.'

This is a more accurate description of the events depicted than has been admitted in previous replies to my complaint. However this is NOT the impression that an uninformed audience member would have got when the very brief footage was combined with the voiceover saying simply that 'Those with opposing views have clashed.'

The guidelines state that 'Commentary and editing must never be used to give the audience a materially misleading impression of events or a contribution.'(3.4.16)

I do not believe that this part of the guidelines was followed.

It was very clear from my previous reply who I was referring to when I said 'the women's side'. Before using the phrase I provided context as follows:

'The footage of both incidents you used - Hyde Park and Bristol - showed women attempting to meet to discuss their rights, and trans rights activists attempting to stop those meetings from happening.'

So obviously 'the women's side' referred to the group of women who were attempting to meet. At both incidents, the group of trans rights activists comprised both male and female individuals and, as I am sure you will agree, it would be thoroughly wrong to assume any of their genders.

You say 'In this context “clash” describes the outcome of a meeting of strongly opposing views', however this is not an accurate description of what the clips showed. Had any of the trans rights activists chosen to buy a ticket and attend the events in the usual fashion then there may have been a meeting of strongly opposing views. Any of the activists would have been welcome to do this and to express their opposition in respectful terms. Instead, they attempted to shut down the meetings altogether and prevent the women from expressing their views (please see above if you need further clarification on who I am referring to when I say 'the women').

You continue by saying, 'it does not assign any motive to those involved or suggest they sought this or any outcome. I think “clash” is a reasonable means of characterising the intense disagreement between the two groups shown and I don’t believe it precludes the possibility that one side acted with more violence (or provocation) than the other.'

One side, the women (please see above if you are still unclear who I am referring to), have acted with NO violence at all. I am sure that you did not mean to imply that by simply attempting to hold a meeting, the women (see above) were acting with provocation.

Of course viewers would have been misled as to what was being shown because it was never even mentioned that both clips showed one group attempting to hold a meeting and another group trying to stop them, in one case with physical violence. Presenting these events simply as clashes was every bit as misleading as Donald Trump speaking of violence on 'both sides' at Charlottesville. I note that the BBC took far more care when reporting around those events and the inadequacy of Trump's 'both sides' narrative.

The arguments around self-ID legislation were not 'fully explored in the piece'. How on earth could they be? The entire report was less than two minutes long!

I understand that the Executive Complaints Unit is separate from the department that handles stage one complaints and that therefore you cannot consider the baseless assertions of your colleagues in that department that there have been media reports of incidents on 'both sides'. Nevertheless I believe those assertions, together with your own failure to properly investigate the wider context of the incidents shown in the clips, illustrate the increasingly obvious biased attitude throughout the BBC to reporting on trans issues, women's rights and child safeguarding.

This is why I have expended so much time pursuing this complaint, about a very short news report, through all the hurdles of the BBC complaints procedure, and why I will also be complaining to Ofcom. I will also be submitting complaints about every other incidence of this bias that I come across from the BBC and will be escalating them all as far as necessary in order to be heard.

I am fed up and I am not the only one.

Kind regards

------------

We've got a bit more time to work on the Ofcom complaint and it's worth looking at their own broadcasting code properly before we do so.

TurboTeddy · 18/02/2019 19:00

Binglebong and pencils, you're both a bit awesome. Thank you for pursuing this complaint.

boatyardblues · 18/02/2019 19:06

That’s a fantastic letter, Pencils! 👌👏

Binglebong · 18/02/2019 19:19

Wow. You are very, very good Pencil. My only quibble is saying that u have expended all the time when in fact you have!

OP posts:
boatyardblues · 18/02/2019 19:32

I fired off (yet another) complaint about John Humphreys today. I feel much better now.

PencilsInSpace · 18/02/2019 19:38

Team effort I reckon Binglebong!

Binglebong · 18/02/2019 19:42

That wonderful email has been sent with not a word changer. Thank you.

OP posts:
Binglebong · 18/02/2019 19:42

Well done Boatyard.

OP posts: