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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

And another safeguarding one. Autistic woman 'pimped out'

103 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/10/2018 23:14

Allie Hodgkins-Brown@AllieHBNews
Thursday’s TIMES: “Autistic woman ‘pimped out’ in care scandal” #bbcpapers #tomorrowspaperstoday

This is copy of some of the article if you can't read it from the image:

Austistic Woman ‘pimped out’ in Care Scandal.

A young autistic woman was allow to have sex with numerous men because her carers were said to believe that high-risk encounters with strangers might help her to “learn from her mistakes”, it can be revealed today.

The woman 23, who has severe learning disabilities and an IQ of 52 was repeatedly exploited during a court approved, two month trial period this summer in which random men were permitted to visit her Manchester care home between 10am and 4pm each day.

She was also taken to shisha bars and had sex in public on numerous occasions, including in a taxi and at the back of a bowling alley because the care company paid to look after her would not physically intervene. In August carers reported that the woman was “offering her telephone number to any number of Asian males” with whom she came into contact. She “doesn’t always recognise them when they arrive at the door and they sometimes don’t recognise here”.

The sexual activity was brought to an end after two months. Last month, in a report to the court, a psychiatrist warned that allowing her to continue to be exposed to such a “high level of risk” was unacceptable, unprofessional and might lead to “sexual abuse, violence, injury or death”.

I note might be despite what had already happened.

The article then goes on to mention that the woman concerned has been under the Court of Protection whose role it is to safeguard vulnerable adults who lack the mental capacity to make decisions for themselves since she was 18.

And the court report said, she might lead to, as in future tense, sexual abuse.

And another safeguarding one. Autistic woman 'pimped out'
OP posts:
PierreBezukov · 18/10/2018 10:58

She was pimped out by the state.

Awful. And so terribly sad.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 18/10/2018 11:21

"Court papers submitted by Manchester city council, which is responsible for the woman’s care, describe a troubled childhood. She had a history of running away from home.

From the age of nine, she was reported missing ten times in five years and “significant concerns arose that [she] had been subjected to sexual activity with men, particularly Asian men”. This included “sexual violations and rapes” while she was still a child."

So this starts to explain things a bit.

Poor poor woman.

Abused as a child and now essentially acting out that abuse over and over it would seem.

Why did a psychologist think this would be healthy for her?

Were any of the men who raped her as a child arrested etc? I know the answer obviously (no).

NothingOnTellyAgain · 18/10/2018 11:30

The stuff about the husband is really odd as well. Why were here family and her husband not consulted about thes decisons or even made aware of them?

NWQM · 18/10/2018 12:37

@NothingOnTellyAgain did a psychologist think it was healthy? I can't work sorry if I've read everything which some of the links not working for me.

The judge seems to have gambled with it being a trail based on the support agency recommendation asking a psychologist to assess at the same time. This appears to be despite the Local Authority opposing the case plan. Family including spouse don't seem to have been consulted. I assume that the client was but obviously the capacity question kicks.

Court appointments psychologist gives damning report and then Local Authority - responsible - tell Care Agency to stop.

So many questions leap to mind.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 18/10/2018 12:54

Confused can't find it now!

Thingybob · 18/10/2018 13:55

With regards to living arrangements, I'm guessing her husband also has a learning disability and lives in the same home/supporting living environment.

Freespeecher · 18/10/2018 14:36

To ask a stupid question (but in good faith) are any of the men she had sex with even chargeable seeing as it was a court-approved idea?

Sterling work from both Andrew Norfolk and The Times once again.

acivilcontract · 18/10/2018 14:41

No judge is going to ask a spouse for consent in this kind of issue, as women it is your choice if you wish to have sex outside marriage and not your husband's.
If she was assessed as being able to give consent then none of the men are going to be chargeable. Exploiting vulnerable adults of sex with their consent is as is shown above a legal minefield.

acivilcontract · 18/10/2018 14:43

Engaging vulnerable adults in sexual activities if they are deemed to have consent is a legal minefield makes more sense as a sentence.

Freespeecher · 18/10/2018 14:50

acivilcontract
Thank you.

acivilcontract · 18/10/2018 14:59

I can't access the articles properly but I am guessing that the arguments were about how informed the consent was, it seems clear she consented but if it wasn't informed it wouldn't be valid. It seems as though the judge initially over ruled the social workers and agreed with the care providers that the consent was informed but changed their minds after a follow up psychological assessment.

NWQM · 18/10/2018 15:23

@acivilcontract for me the worrying / shocking bit is the articles read as if the judge didn't know and so appointed the psychologist but supported the care provider in allowing the facilitated activities to continue despite the LA's concerns. The judge indicated that it would effectively be interesting to see how she copes and nothing about ensuring she had support to consider the effects of her actions.

Can see what you are saying re spouse and also presumably family ties may have been weak given they had been able to safeguard her as a child. It just doesn't seem though that a rounded view of what was going on was given.

acivilcontract · 18/10/2018 15:47

I think a lack of knowledge about sex abuse, it's impact on people both as DC and adults can be very poor in the judiciary and lead to ill informed decision making.

RebelRogue · 18/10/2018 17:35

I'm speechless. The cynic in me would really like someone to look into exactly how "random" these encounters were.

acivilcontract · 18/10/2018 18:20

I am sure there will be links between the men, even if quite vague at times. The knowledge of where sex can be easily found is a type of currency for some groups and likely to be discussed and shared.

AngryAttackKittens · 18/10/2018 19:58

might help her to “learn from her mistakes”

WTAF? What "mistakes" are these, and how would being pimped out assist with the "learning" process?

Everyone involved in this needs to be prosecuted.

RebelWitchFace · 18/10/2018 20:01

I was thinking about more than just links between the men.

Threeminis · 18/10/2018 21:58

noeffingidea

I might have worded it wrong.
Might she not have urges in the same way everyone else does? Who is anyone to decide she can't carry them out?

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 18/10/2018 22:18

What if she becomes pregnant, or already has done? Surely anyone with such severe learning difficulties wouldn't be able to look after children?

LassWiADelicateAir · 18/10/2018 22:45

Might she not have urges in the same way everyone else does? Who is anyone to decide she can't carry them out?

That is what this is about. The "pimping" reference was a quote from a family member. There is no suggestion she was being pimped, although no doubt the fact she exists and was available was passed round.

Her childhood experience means that as a child she was treating as normal behaviour which is not normal. Her autism and learning difficulties mean unlearning that is difficult to impossible. From the reports, she wants to have sex. As well as men coming to her home she was leaving it at night looking for men.

You could keep her safe by locking her up in a female only environment (convent, care home, psychiatric ward) or you might be able to give her drugs to suppress sexual desire or you could require her carers to physically restrain her if she attempts to initiate sex.

I agree the reports are horrific and this has turned out to be a disaster. I am not trying to minimise how bad this is but what do you suggest should happen?

Iused2BanOptimist · 18/10/2018 22:55

We have gone from locking people deemed mentally deficient away in psychiatric hospitals for life to this. Surely there is something in between?

So many questions around this. Did the court order contraception whilst ordering that she should be allowed to engage in these risky activities? What about STD's? I doubt all those seedy men in the queue were careful condom users. What about the husband being exposed to the risk of STI's? What about his rights? And if it was thought he was marrying her for a passport shouldn't that have been reported? I thought that was illegal.

If it was some sort of sheltered housing where there other residents in adjoining flats or nearby? What about their safety with this queue of dodgy men hanging around?

It just goes on and on, appalling at so many levels. I think police should inspect the computers of some of the people involved in these decisions. It could prove very enlightening.

Iused2BanOptimist · 18/10/2018 23:07

I honestly think administering hormones to reduce her libido would be in her best interests. If someone needs care then they need to be cared for. We restrain children from running into the road. This woman needs protection from her unbridled instincts. I simply can't accept that this sort of behaviour should be facilitated. She clearly has sexual urges but how is it in her best interests to be given free rein to be a shag post for abusive men? If she needs twenty four hour care what other aspects of her life need supervision and protection? How is protection suddenly not required in this one area of her life?

LassWiADelicateAir · 18/10/2018 23:08

All good questions.

I wondered about pregnancy. She cannot possibly be using contraception unless she has one of the long term implants. I suppose she has sufficient capacity to consent to that.

noeffingidea · 19/10/2018 01:05

Not neccesarily, Lass. All medical decisions may have to be made by the legal guardian (in this case the court of protection). You may remember a case a few years ago where a woman with a severe learning disability was given a hysterectomy against her wishes because it was ruled to be in her best interests.

acivilcontract · 19/10/2018 02:19

My guess would be a long term implant, we used these 20 years ago when I was working in independent living for adults with LD. It was a lifetime ago but the issues haven't changed that much.

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