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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Prof. Kathleen Stock WPUK speech at House of Lords. Important disection of the key issues for MPs, policy makers etc with ref to The Trans Equality Report.

78 replies

R0wantrees · 11/10/2018 12:52

Women’s Place talk: full text House of Lords Oct 10th 2018

"As I hope is clear to everyone by now — thanks to campaigns like that of A Woman’s Place and Fair Play for Women — when it comes to developing public policy around legally changing sex, there are several sets of interests at stake, and not just one.

To put it in a nutshell: if you’re going to make it very easy for members of the biological male sex, socialised as men, to get the word ‘female’ written on their birth certificates, you are going to get at least two problems, simply put:

· more opportunities for some males to harass females, because now males can be more easily legally treated as females, and so have greater access to females.

and

· an undermining of the positive actions which have historically promoted equality of opportunity for females; because now some males can ‘self-identify as females’ and so get access to these opportunities (all-women shortlists being the obvious example).

You are also going to get a lot of confusion for questioning, gender-non-conforming, children, working out who they are in a world in which ‘changing sex’ is now apparently easy.

So the question for all of us is: how to balance these competing interests?

I want to talk about how, in attempting to answer that question, public organisations are being misleadingly advised, sometimes with harmful results.

I take it that the selection of advisors on a particular issue should follow four basic and commonsensical principles:

· All groups affected should be represented

· Advisors should have relevant expertise, and should advise only on areas where they have expertise.

· Advisors shouldn’t have backgrounds which undermine their credibility.

· Advisors should, where possible, appeal to independently verified evidence to back up their views." (continues)

medium.com/@kathleenstock/womens-place-talk-full-text-house-of-lords-oct-10th-2018-b1f3d70c4559

OP posts:
TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 11/10/2018 19:49
Disgustingwoman · 11/10/2018 20:07

This has made my day happy! Stunning piece. I'm in awe!

Rumbledore · 11/10/2018 20:21

Superb speech 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

R0wantrees · 11/10/2018 20:24

Maybe we should go 'old school' print a couple of copies each and send it with a covering note to interested parties?

OP posts:
whereisthatpenguinfrom · 11/10/2018 20:24

If anyone else wants to pass the link on to Children in Need as I am doing:

www.bbcchildreninneed.co.uk

The National Lottery don't seem to list an email address but post address as follows:

For general enquiries, write to us at:

The National Lottery
PO Box 251
Watford
WD18 9BR

RedDogsBeg · 11/10/2018 20:24

Brilliant speech by Prof. Stock it was clear, crisp and easy to understand.

I did, however, make the mistake of actually clicking onto the Committee Report - I've never seen a more appalling, biased and completely fact free, evidence less report in my life. It was full of ridiculous, fluffy language and it was clear that the people on the committee were bending over backwards so far to appease the contributors that their heads had disappeared up their backsides. If this is the standard of Government Consultation and Reports we are in serious trouble.

whereisthatpenguinfrom · 11/10/2018 20:25

like minds Grin

whereisthatpenguinfrom · 11/10/2018 20:25

[email protected]

arranfan · 11/10/2018 20:33

I know that I bang on about this but in committees with well-thought out and defined processes, you have to follow the principles of procedural justice. In a nutshell, you have to document every piece of evidence you consider, transparently give it a scoring system and document what weight you give it. You document every single decision that you make so that it is published and the material behind it is stated.

All of the decisions are open to challenge and revision, if necessary.

I find it beyond belief that the Miller committee operated on a system that would be inadequate for organising a village fete.

arranfan · 11/10/2018 20:37

In passing, I noticed that the excellent Dr Jane Clare Jones' Twitter account is now locked (which means I can't see her as I don't have Twitter and presumably other people who didn't follow her now can't see her).

I hope there's no particular reason for that and that she hasn't been given a brigading by particular groups.

twitter.com/janeclarejones

Charley50 · 11/10/2018 20:55

Brilliant speech.

Roystonv · 11/10/2018 21:11

Calm, clear and collected. It's a thumbs up from me.

KatVonGulag · 11/10/2018 21:23

Wish we could pay to put that in the paper.

So clearly put. Thank you Professor Stock

arranfan · 11/10/2018 21:32

Wish we could pay to put that in the paper.

I'd chip in to have it light-shown over the Houses of Parliament in the style of a certain recent show...

It should be a son et lumiere of choice phrases and Prof. Stock's speech played over it. But that's me.

WineGummyBear · 11/10/2018 21:32

This is such a clear-headed and credible piece of work. Every person listening to that speech must have been blown away by the full force of the argument.

I have a massive crush on Pro Stock

AbsintheFriends · 11/10/2018 21:38

Very, very glad to have brilliant women like Kathleen Stock speaking up for women on this.

MrBirlingsAwfulWife · 11/10/2018 21:40

I so needed this!

What an excellent, well thought out and clearly articulated speech. Bloody marvellous!

ChiaraRimini · 11/10/2018 22:15

This is really worrying to be honest
As a democracy we rely on parliamentary committee like this to shape public policy and law making. It seems from this example they cannot be trusted to seek out evidence from a balanced range of sources to make decisions which take into account the needs of all affected groups.
Obviously I don't know how this is replicated. However based on what I've heard elsewhere there is a real concern that it is not what you know, it's who you know when it comes to getting in front of select committees to give evidence. The whole process is so obscure that although it's theoretically open, you'd need to be tipped off/invited to take part. It's really dodgy when you think these people are making laws that affect all of us.

R0wantrees · 11/10/2018 22:34

ChiaraRimini
I agree. Aside from the issues of women's rights, trans rights etc the clear failings of process, due process & potentially flawed legislationas a consequence of these are really serious.

OP posts:
Ereshkigal · 11/10/2018 22:37

I'd chip in to have it light-shown over the Houses of Parliament in the style of a certain recent show...

It should be a son et lumiere of choice phrases and Prof. Stock's speech played over it. But that's me.

Oh so would I! Someone start a crowdfunder. We could then end it with the "Repeat after me, TWAW" for full sinister peaking glory.

arranfan · 11/10/2018 22:43

Ereshkigal wrote: We could then end it with the "Repeat after me, TWAW" for full sinister peaking glory.

Blimey. Remember that classic Apple advert? The one from 1984? It should have the head on the screen saying, "Repeat after me, TWAW". Prof Stock, FPFW, WPUK et al can then rush up and throw the hammer that breaks the screen/spell.

Ereshkigal · 11/10/2018 22:56

That would be ace Grin

Ereshkigal · 11/10/2018 22:57

not meaning asexual

R0wantrees · 11/10/2018 23:24

twitter.com/JonnnyBest/status/1050455504437293056

Prof. Kathleen Stock WPUK speech at House of Lords. Important disection of the key issues for MPs, policy makers etc with ref to The Trans Equality Report.
OP posts:
loveyouradvice · 11/10/2018 23:27

Wow... Cheering from afar... has made my evening....

at the same time as a cold little voice inside me is saying surely this is just so obvious and why would they even think of doing anything else?

And I also think MASSIVE THANKS to Baroness Nicholson for organising... anyone know how this happened? Clearly a very well thought through approach ... so cheering her as much as Prof Stock