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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Susie Green article in the Graun

84 replies

Freespeecher · 04/10/2018 09:19

Based on the Guides thing.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/04/transphobia-daughter-guides-inclusivity-girlguiding-transgender-girls

OP posts:
SlowlyShrinking · 04/10/2018 11:35

Becoming the CEO of mermaids and having politicians and stonewall etc etc sucking up to her must feel SO validating of her actions

Beagadorsrock · 04/10/2018 11:41

dolorsit
great minds. I also went to check that 'lying' and would like it to be pointed out. Sometimes the Times's paywall can be used, let's say, unjudiciously by people with an agenda...

Needmoresleep · 04/10/2018 11:52

am deeply deeply suspicious of any parent who draws such attention and a media circus to her Childs mental health problems and illness.

Though I can't see her individual renumeration from the annual report, Susie Green seems to have resigned as a Trustee to allow for seperation between governance and operations. The report does not give any figure for media and appearance income, so perhaps fees from the Guardian etc go directly to her.

Part of the problem seems to be that a whole bunch of people are making livings from the Transgender movement.

Interestingly Mermaid's "trading activities" till end March 2017 brought in £12,294, up from £3,646. I would guess that the new accoutns will show a continued increase.

deepwatersolo · 04/10/2018 12:02

I'd like to see some of these documentaries deepwatersolo because that isn't a natural or common conservative Christian position.

What I could find for now is this for now. It very much looks like the Mom was happier with 'trans' than the relatives' suggestion of 'gay'. Doesn't mean they don't struggle with trans, too.

www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/parenting/a43702/transgender-child-kimberly-shappley/

Unfortunately, I cannot find the one doku, where the Christian mom insisted, her kid is hetero not homosexual, because it is a 'female brain/soul' thing. But I would encourage you to watch transkid dokus, Christian families of that kindhave been featured repeatedly.

SlowlyShrinking · 04/10/2018 12:10

The above is a 17 year old having SRS, supported by his Christian mum. I find it quite chilling actually. She sings hymns while he’s having genital surgery. Poor kid just wants to study theatre 😳

SPOFS · 04/10/2018 12:17

Green will never admit that her actions are wrong. If she did, she would have to face the harsh truth that she harmed her own child. What parent could do that? Sad

R0wantrees · 04/10/2018 12:26

Spectator article 'Don’t tell the parents: the official guidance to teachers of ‘trans children’
As in so many progressive ­schooling fads before it, children are the experts and ­teachers are just there to facilitate'
by Madeleine Kearns

concludes:
"What’s worrying is that anyone who challenges the new teaching on trans issues can find themselves in trouble. So when Victoria Atkins, the Minister for Women, admitted to being ‘a little cautious’ about teenage sex-changes, she was accused of bigotry. And Dr Kenneth Zucker, perhaps the leading authority on gender dysphoria in children, was recently ousted from his clinic in Toronto after being accused of ‘transphobia’ and supporting ‘conversion therapy’ because his 40 years’ experience and research had led him to the conclusion that affirming a child’s perceived gender can be counterproductive.

Many of these transgenderism training programmes are publicly funded. Last year, LGBT Youth Scotland received more than £1 million in grants, including £350,000 from the Scottish government, £160,000 from local authorities (all but one SNP-controlled), and £75,000 from Education Scotland. Mermaids UK, meanwhile, was granted £35,000 from the Department for Education and £128,000 from Children in Need.

Something is off here. Teachers are being asked to put ideology before evidence and to exclude parents from serious welfare decisions about their own children. Parents are often not allowed to take part in the discussion. Children are being asked to make important decisions about their gender, which is a surprisingly adult notion for many to grasp. What’s clear is that the issue of gender dysphoria in children is one of tremendous complexity, both medical and moral. To suggest otherwise — to children or teachers — is a dangerous mistake."

www.spectator.co.uk/2018/10/dont-tell-the-parents-official-guidance-to-teachers-of-trans-children/

Needmoresleep · 04/10/2018 12:41

Green will never admit that her actions are wrong. If she did, she would have to face the harsh truth that she harmed her own child. What parent could do that?

Chilling. I had almost forgotten about DD's determination that she was a boy, but was reminded by this article. It is something that would have only come up at a point when we were showing childhood photos to a future spouse. We did have some problems with one or two school run mums, who had some strange objections to her boyishness, but largely it was cool and she was invited to the boys parties and played on the football team. Indeed several rather glamerous mums would assert that they too had been out-and-out tom-boys when little and that they enjoyed having her on play dates.

It think it would be a lot more difficult now as well meaning folk would probably start labelling her "transgender" and looking up the Mermaids guidance, putting an unhelpful pressure on her. Stereotyping when none was needed.

So my own parenting advice, not that anyone is asking me, is to watch, wait, ensure access to a range of role models rather than narrow stereotypes (girls can be engineers), and keep communicating. Susie Green comes across as very rigid, as if there is only one form of right - hers.

TigerDrankAllTheWaterInTheTap · 04/10/2018 12:56

I've just read that Madeleine Kearns article. Chilling. She says a mother told her that her daughter confided in staff at the school that she now identified as a boy. The school began calling the child by a new name and pronouns. The parents were not told. They eventually withdrew the child from that school, and only then discovered that during a residential trip their teenage female child had shared a room with boys because the staff believe that gender identity trumped everything else. I think this was in the US, but I wish I could be more confident that couldn't happen over here.

R0wantrees · 04/10/2018 13:07

Current thread, OP twofalls post includes response:

"I’m writing to let you know that I’ve raised your concerns regarding Mermaids UK, one of the organisations we link to on our Gender and autism page, with a number of teams within the National Autistic Society. In light of the concerns raised in your message, and of other feedback that we have received, we have decided to remove all links to Mermaids UK from our website, while we take the time to consult with relevant professionals and to reconsider which organisations we wish to place links to on our website.

As such, our Web Team are working to remove all links to Mermaids UK from our website as soon as possible. Please do be aware, however, that, as we are currently in the process of updating our website to reflect our new branding and organisational identity, it may take a few days for this to be actioned."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3384565-Good-news-from-the-National-Autistic-Society-regarding-Mermaids-Please-help

bd67th · 04/10/2018 13:08

Dear Susie Green,

Like your child Jackie, I also have attempted suicide multiple times, the first time at age 15, and have many scars from self-harm. Most of the times, when I hurt my body, it was in response to misogynist behaviour perpetrated by boys and men. Suicidal and parasuicidal behaviour are common amongst teen girls, with 22% of fourteen-year-old girls self-harming in the UK and LGB children, like I was, being twice as likely as straight children to attempt suicide. Trans teens are not the only children who face such harmful urges and overstating the risks to trans teens is a dishonest tactic to persuade people to prioritise trans teens over all others.

I owe my GCSEs and my life to being able to attend a single-sex secondary school. I was sexually assaulted by two bepenised children in a mixed primary school changing room in Year 4, who cornered me and groped my vulva because they wanted to know what pubic hair felt like. I use the term "bepenised" because their gender identity was and still is irrelevant to me, as was mine to them. I insisted upon a girl-only secondary school to escape from that hell. Being in a girl-only school meant that I was no longer in fear of beatings and sexual assaults from bepenised children, who, by virtue of their biology, were bigger than me, stronger than me, and had a weapon built-in to their bodies to rape me with. Had I been told that I had to share the toilets and changing rooms with a bepenised child, I know that my first suicide attempt would have come a lot earlier than 15. I would have been in constant fear that the bepenised child would weaponise their body against me. These fears are not hypothetical: the cases of Karen White and TracyXXs's daughter demonstrate that such abuse can and does happen.

I attended the Brownies and the Guides. Our camps were jointly-held with a local Scout troop and I feared the Scouts even though they were at the other end of a large field from me. The single-sex nature of Guides at that time meant that, even though some of my fellow Guides were bullies, I could cope because they were physically matched to me and they didn't have penises to rape me with and leave me pregnant. There was no inherent, sexed power imbalance between me and the other Guides, because we were all bevulvaed females. When I aged out of Guides, I was expected to go on to Rangers. I refused, because our Rangers used a RaVen model of joint activities with Venture Scouts and I was afraid of the bepenised Ventures. I'll repeat that: I was so scared of the bepenised Ventures that I left Guiding sooner than do Ranger activities with them.

I consider it no coincidence that my first suicide attempt was within weeks of leaving Guides. Having to face a choice of close proximity to bepenised people or stopping the adventurous activities I enjoyed, brought the trauma of my sexual assault up to the surface from where it had lain buried as it wasn't relevant in a single-sex school nor in single-sex Guides.

Had my Brownies allowed bepenised members, I would have left. Had my Guides allowed bepenised members, I would have left. I would have been denied the preparedness and practical skills that I learned at Guides.

Why does a girl, traumatised by a sexual assault that she doesn't even dare to disclose to her parents until her twenties, matter less than a bepenised trans child?

Threewheeler1 · 04/10/2018 13:18

There is something very wrong with Susie Green.
As other posters have said, she doesn't have a clue about safeguarding issues and she's not interested in turning her attention to them.
She honestly doesn't seem to give a shit about anyone outside the trans bubble, and that's an awful lot of people she's discounting the lived experiences of.
She's riding high as some sort of high priestess of the cult.
I'd love her to spend a month shadowing a social work team, just to help her understand the impact of male violence and sexual abuse and how common it is.
Then maybe she could have a little rethink about why we need safeguards.

R0wantrees · 04/10/2018 14:30

I'd love her to spend a month shadowing a social work team, just to help her understand the impact of male violence and sexual abuse and how common it is.
Then maybe she could have a little rethink about why we need safeguards.

bd67th
Yours is such an important voice
Flowers

vicviking · 04/10/2018 15:56

Agree Three
Also shows that there is something very wrong with the charity sector that one person with such a specific and niche experience can wield such influence.

vicviking · 04/10/2018 15:57

Flowers. bd67th

Youvegotatoadonyourhead · 04/10/2018 16:00

Ask your mp to ask a parliamentary question on the suicide rate of children and how many of those were trans. Then the stats will be on the record as either they’ll release them or they’ll say that data isn’t collected. Both responses prove the claim is wrong.

Youvegotatoadonyourhead · 04/10/2018 16:01

That was for @naivetyisthenewblack

dolorsit · 04/10/2018 16:22

This is a somewhat different account to the one that is usually given.

www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/mother-transgender-jackie-explains-moment-13355068

Charliethefeminist · 04/10/2018 16:26

i also wonder if Susie and Jackie Green would be so influential if Jackie was less physically attractive? yes something in this, cf Paris lees, but JG has a male (very) look in a Butterfly publicity shot.

Beagadorsrock · 04/10/2018 16:45

Someone went and looked at all serious case reviews in the UK for young people suicide:

twitter.com/GirlScout27/status/1047840065957892096

it's a thread : most interesting tweet says

"There were no suicides of trans children in UK in last 10 years in serious case reviews. The tag 'gender identity' returns no serious case reviews."

Charliethefeminist · 04/10/2018 17:12

This one

Susie Green article in the Graun
Wrathofjurgenklop · 04/10/2018 17:22

I have the impression the anti gay stance of transgenderism is funded by fundamental religious organisations, the Vatican being one that springs to mind.
Very rich, globally powerful and very influential to ordinary citizens.
After the recent scandals, they have a lot to gain from this.

scepticalwoman · 04/10/2018 17:29

Re the Times article. This is the original judgement about the case. It is long but well worth reading if you want an outline of how a child can be repeatedly abused when professionals listen to trans organisations pushing an ideology rather than following basic safeguarding principles and listening to the child.

www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2016/2430.html

Threewheeler1 · 04/10/2018 18:38

scepticalwoman
Thanks for that link.

This part is chilling.

'Not only are the conclusions of the report irreconcilable with the core information within it but it is striking that the Local Authority had moved into wholesale acceptance that J should be regarded as a girl. Once again, I make no apology for repeating the fact that J was still only 4 years of age. The conclusions of the report speak of J by use of the feminine pronoun. There was no independent or supportive evidence that J identified as a girl at all, indeed there was a body of material that suggested the contrary. The cry for investigation went unheeded...'

Then there's this, regarding the involvement and management of the case by Children's Services.

'The two remaining passages of the conclusion make very disheartening reading indeed. They combine both naivety and professional arrogance. Concerns were dismissed on the basis that it was the other agencies who 'did not have a full understanding of gender non-conforming children'. In fact it was Ms Jenkins and her senior managers whose understanding was lacking.'

I was a social worker in children's services.
I was considering going back, but not anymore.
I'm glad I'm out.
How is it that this ideology has become so overbearing that it supplants the basic job you're supposed to be doing as a social worker, assessing the risk and putting safeguards in place to protect the child? I don't understand how these decisions were made (right on up through the management chain) with regard to a 4 year old child, it's absolutely baffling.

Threewheeler1 · 04/10/2018 18:49

This passage sums it all up really.

'Transgender equality has received a great deal of attention in recent times. I believe that in this case the profile and sensitivity of the matters raised by the mother blinded a number of professionals from applying their training, skills and, it has to be said, common sense. They failed properly to investigate M's assertions, in part I suspect, because they did not wish to appear to be challenging an emerging orthodoxy in such a high profile issue.'

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