NHS faces lawsuit for not funding fertility services for transgenders who want kids

[happydappy2]

Our NHS is being threatened with legal action for not funding fertility services for transgender individuals, before they undergo hormone treatments and sex change operations that lead to sterility.

This could push the NHS over the edge financially-then we'll all have to take out private medical insurance & lo & behold, pharmaceutical companies are profiting big time from children being being brainwashed into believing they're trans.

afraid I can't post a link but its out on twitter & believe the Independent covered it recently.

they really need to get a paragraph in the consent form that the patient is agreeing to be sterilized.
both sexes would need to find someone either a partner or surrogate for any children they might want so it would fall on that person to have the treatment anyway.

Why does society support being lead by cluster B people?

The way it is being framed is that taking hormones and medically altering your body is "life-saving" and "absolutely essential" for a transgender person, NOT a lifestyle choice.

Someone who has cancer and whose has life saving and absolutely essential chemotherapy or surgery which removes their fertility should be entitled to being able to preserve their fertility on the NHS before treatment.

Therefore a transgender person should be treated in the same way.

That is the logic if you agree with the first statement.

It was in a lot of the papars, TV & radio last Sunday:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3326933-NHS-told-give-trans-patients-equal-access-to-fertility-service

I agree with transgender people on this one. If the NHS is giving them treatment for their condition which makes them infertile then they should provide fertility services before hand to those that want/need it.

MimpiDreams playing forwards, would this include IVF for surragacy if a female's eggs were frozen and then as a consequence of cross sex hormones / medical advice / personal decision they had a hysterectomy?

If a "woman" is no longer entitled to free IVF treatment on the NHS, why should a "man" be entitled to save their eggs (as a female) and then get free IVF on the NHS as a man. You can't have it both, or indeed, all, ways. It just makes no sense that if you want to be a "man" so desperately that you are willing to change your biology by taking all sorts of drugs in order to achieve that aim but are not then willing to accept that being a man, means you can't have children. You have a choice, you make it, and you get it for free on the NHS, but you shouldn't then be able to exempt one of the consequences of that decision. You can by all means, pay for it yourself, but it shouldn't be offered on the NHS.

I have seen this compared to actions taken around fertility for those who need certain cancer treatments on the NHS.

However on that thread a quick google revealed that not all areas do provide fertility stuff (sperm storage etc) for people who are treated for cancer.

I don;t think that trans people should get better treatment in this instance than those who have cancer.

I do think that the side effects should be made extremely clear to those seeking hormonal / surgical changes due to sex dysphoria (I don't think people without dysphoria seek these types of treatments?).

It does raise questions around the push for younger and younger treamtment eg many pushing for reduction to 16 for sugical reassignment. At 16 most people are pretty shit at thinking about long term consequences and knowing whether they want kids or not. Even at 18.

I mean you can't get a tattoo till your 18 right?

Anyway.

The NHS is cash strapped. Fertility treatments are a highly contention topic with very strong arguments on both sides and it's one of those where I think most people can see both sides.

Bottom line is, is this a choice surgery or not? Surely the "saving lives" thing goes to >> mental illness which current activism says trans is not, even with dysphoria.

I think that these sort of ideas will be things that the general public will feel less comfy with - when it comes to their tax £££ being spent while other with cancer are not getting teh same level of care etc.

then you get stuff like the action for trans health manifesto:

"We demand an end to all surgical prerequisites – nobody should have to prove life experience,health or have to be taking hormones in order to exercise bodily autonomy. We demand that these surgeries can be highly customised to meet our individual & unique needs.

We demand the right to multiple surgeries, including reversal of previous surgeries if desired, so that we do not have to fear regret.

We demand the free & timely provision of genital surgeries, additive & reductive chest surgeries, hysterectomies and orchiectomies, tracheal & vocal surgeries, facial surgeries, lipoplasty, contouring & microdermabrasion, surgical hair removal & transplantation, and any other possible procedure to meet our needs as we express them.

We demand resources for hair removal anywhere on our bodies, and the option of local anesthetic during these procedures. We demand voice coaching that does not coerce us to alter our voices in ways we do not express a need for, but respects our accents and our right to express ourselves however we desire.

We demand access to counselling & and any other therapies we choose."

More

"We demand the revocation of medical licenses from all gender clinic doctors & nurses, past and present.
We demand the power to hold abusers of medical & administrative power accountable for historical & present injustices.

We demand medical training to enable us to safely carry out medical procedures & research for each other, for anyone of us who wants to learn. We will enhance our collective knowledge, so that the means to understand our bodies is universally accessible. We demand to improve the quality of medications we take and procedures we undergo, to reduce negative side-effects in the long term, and to highlight our own experience and understanding of their effects on our bodies.

We demand research centres & libraries of knowledge, autonomously & horizontally organised by and for trans people, in which research subjects are equal participants in deciding the experiments conducted & the manner in which those experiments are carried out.

We demand full funding for any research or projects undertaken by these collectives."

Local anaesthetic during waxing! Are they not aware that waxing body hair is pampering and women bloody love it?

Action for Trans Health demand a lot!

I find it distasteful that this funding of fertility services on the NHS for those who wish to undergo transition is conflated to young girls, women or young boys, men undergoing distressing cancer treatment of their sexual reproductive organs.

Yet on the other hand Action for Trans Health suggest that no trans person needs to undergo surgery but be treated as the gender they want to be seen as within the NHS.

It's about time the reality of cancer treatment for young people, some very young, be separated from trans health.

Trans health is a serious issue. Trans women keep their prostate and most often now keep their testicles and penis.

Increasingly trans health has to focus on dementia and Alzheimer's patients as they are confused about being referred to as the gender they adopted and are distressed about the body they now have.

It’s worth mentioning here that groups like mermaids are pushing for very early treatment for children with puberty blockers. Essentially before puberty kicks in.

If a child is placed on these blockers pre puberty or before a certain stage of puberty there will be no mature sperm or ova to save and bank.

It’s also worth saying that right now the access to fertility service for people with cancer is patchy and effectively a postcode lottery.

stillathing lol yes quite

Lot of what I've read, seems that there is a lack of awareness that many women have body hair & facial hair that they pay through the nose to remove from a very young age

Please be aware that this is the reality of fertility treatment for those diagnosed with cancer:

Campaign of awareness not litigation launched last year by Becki McGuiness 'Cancer & Fertility UK':

"Thankfully I have now been in remission for 8 years but have to live with life long side effects. Early menopause is a hard one to deal with especially as the Gynecologist I had to see for HRT (Hormone Replacement Therapy) said they could have helped me, if only I had been originally sent to see her.

If only the hospital had a holistic approach for cancer patients.

I am officially launching a campaign for the awareness on #Cancer and #Fertility for all cancer patients called “The Vicious Cycle Campaign” and I’m also using the hashtag 💔 #HiddenHeartache 💔 because it’s something painful that’s hidden in society especially if you’re young and infertile. I want to raise awareness so women know the options available (as it takes longer to save women’s eggs and men usually get their fertility preserved, as it’s quicker) and asking to see a fertility specialist. I would prefer if all oncologists brought up the subject with every patient because for some patients it’s so traumatic finding out they have cancer that they might not even be thinking clearly enough or may forget to even ask about fertility and that’s why I believe they shouldn’t be putting this pressure on the patient to ask because they have so much to worry about already

This is something I am really passionate about. I know it can vary throughout the UK for different women and I want my campaign to make sure there’s equal opportunities for all women and men regardless who their doctor is or area they live in.

I want the protocol to be the same for everyone in the UK rather than being hit and miss for patients or a postcode lottery."

(caps are from website sorry)
^"A STUDY BY ST MARY’S HOSPITAL IN MANCHESTER SAYS AROUND HALF OF FEMALE CANCER PATIENTS AGED 15 TO 39 — ROUGHLY 4,000 A YEAR — ARE INFERTILE AFTER THEIR TREATMENT.
RESEARCHERS ESTIMATE THAT AROUND HALF WOULD VOLUNTARILY CHOOSE NOT TO USE FERTILITY PRESERVATION AND HALF WOULD WANT IT.

FREEZING EGGS, OVARIAN TISSUE OR AN EMBRYO CREATED WITH A PARTNER’S SPERM ACTS AS AN INSURANCE POLICY WHICH MAY GIVE THEM THE CHANCE TO START A FAMILY LATER USING IVF.
BUT IN 2014 ONLY 154 WOMEN HAD THEIR EGGS FROZEN — LESS THAN 4 PER CENT OF THE 4,000 WHO WERE LEFT INFERTILE.
AND A FURTHER SURVEY FOUND THAT ONLY A THIRD OF THE WOMEN WHO DID HAVE TREATMENT GOT IT ON THE NHS.
THE REST ARE LIKELY TO HAVE PAID THOUSANDS OF POUNDS PRIVATELY FOR THE CHANCE TO BE A MOTHER.
STUDY AUTHOR DR YAZAN ABDALLAH OF THE DEPARTMENT OF REPRODUCTIVE MEDICINE AT ST MARY’S SAID: ‘GETTING CANCER IS A MISFORTUNE, NOT A CHOICE, AND SO FERTILITY PRESERVATION MUST BE AVAILABLE ON THE NHS. THERE IS A BIG OPPORTUNITY TO INFORM AND EMPOWER WOMEN — NOT ASK THEM TO PAY...^ continues

cancerandfertility.co.uk/about/

A young girl or woman can have their ovarian tissue frozen and then re implanted.

Regarding young men who have both testicles removed during cancer surgery the problem is a little more complex depending on the nature of the cancer.

More often a fertility conserving surgery is made with strict follow ups throughout puberty.

"We demand" a diagnosis of Narcissistic Personality Disorder!

anything that raises the awareness of the unintended consequences, of putting a child on puberty blockers & cross sex hormones (ie infertility) is a good thing....imho

Cluster B people cause a lot of problems and suck up so many resources.

No this is ridiculous. As a woman denied ivf..I can express how wrong this is. Your choice to transition.. your responsibility to deal with the consequences...

CAN'T ... ffs

This will just result in the withdrawal of fertility services for all.

This will just result in the withdrawal of fertility services for all.

Win win for those with womb envy.

MimpiDreams playing forwards, would this include IVF for surragacy if a female's eggs were frozen and then as a consequence of cross sex hormones / medical advice / personal decision they had a hysterectomy?

Is that offered to non trans people who need it? I'll be honest, I don't think the NHS should be butchering healthy people and leaving them infertile in the first place. But if they do, they should offer the same fertility treatment they offer others. I gather that in many areas that means they'll be offered very little.

But if they do, they should offer the same fertility treatment they offer others

The equivilence that the transgender lobby is seeking is with people diagnosed with cancer, furthermore, they are seeking equilence with the theoretical best practise protocol. Which is rarely applied.

What about other others?