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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

GIRES school resources

34 replies

LanguageAsAFlower · 30/07/2018 22:44

From things I've read on here and from a general concern about what resources are available to schools to teach/support/guide students through issues relating to gender/sex I came across the GIRES website. I emailed them, because as far as I can see many of the resources seem to confuse sex and gender, but also have a tenuous link to what we know to be biologically true. As I've said before on here I don't think schools are the place for anything that could be deemed too radical/controversial I'm concerned that young women and men are supported fairly and protected from those who would "sell" them on permanent actions at a such a young and impressionable age. I'm interested in what you make of the reply I received. Resources and my email as photos, I'll post the reply as the next comment.

GIRES school resources
GIRES school resources
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LanguageAsAFlower · 30/07/2018 22:45

hank you for your email.

The government is aware that there is a conflation of sex (male or female) and gender (boy/man or girl/woman) in law and almost everywhere else because often when a person is asked how they identify, they reply 'male' or 'female which are, of course, descriptions of sex characteristics, and not the same thing as identifying as a man or a woman. In the cisgender population, such a conflation is not always problematic, but in the trans/non-binary population it is unhelpful.

There are common assumptions made at birth. It is assumed that sex characteristics, and gender identities are inevitably binary, when in fact we know that there is everything in between; it is also assumed that genital appearance determines the gender identity. Although, typically, sex and gender will be congruent, this is not inevitable. Also, gender identity is not the same thing as gender expression although, usually, of course, we anticipate that gender expression will reflect gender identity. So, typically, male genitalia will be associated with the psychosocial identification as a boy, and a gender expression that is largely regarded as masculine; and vice versa.

You have made the sex/gender conflation when you contradict the point that “it’s your brain that tells you you’re a boy or a girl”, and continue with "surely it’s their genitals that tell them what sex they are? Yes, the genitals indicate sex or, at least the sex you can see, but, as above, that is not an infallible indicator of a person's psychosocial understanding of themselves as a boy or girl (or non-binary). It's the brain, not the genitalia that tells you if you are a boy or a girl, or non-binary. Gender identity depends on how the brain is configured. Of course there are male and female aspects to all brains, although overall brains are more alike than unalike, but there are differences in anatomy and function which impact on gender identity and these differences are found in trans people. Often they are associated with unusual hormone levels prenatally.

We learnt these lessons many years ago, when it became apparent that surgeries on infants, born with ambiguous genitalia, to create a female appearance, do not guarantee that the child, no matter how assiduously raised as a girl, would identify as such. Therefore something else had to be going on. The gender identity was not necessarily a match with the female appearance and the gender of rearing. This practice is now unlawful in some jurisdictions.

There is peer-reviewed scientific evidence indicating differences in the brains of those whose identity is not congruent with their sex as registered at birth (hence the new terminology 'gender incongruence'). It is on the basis of 'current scientific evidence' that the WHO has now reclassified 'transsexualism' by moving it out of Mental and Behavioural Disorders. So, it is no longer regarded as psychopathological but somatic. The same journey was made by sexual orientation in 1992, when the WHO dropped it. A person's sexual orientation is not a choice, and that is generally accepted now. Nor is a person's gender identity a matter of choice. We are not all born cisgender and straight.

The most recent review of the "biological correlations in the development of gender dysphoria" is in The Lancet 2016 June. (Dysphoria is the discomfort associated with the 'incongruence').

Experimentation with gender expression whether temporary or permanent, may or may not indicate that a person is transgender. It is how they describe themselves - the person they know themselves to be, that is the key. Many women wear quite masculine clothing, at least some of the time, but they still regard themselves as women. A person assigned male at birth who does not identify as a man, will experience extreme discomfort, will ultimately be obliged to transition, to bring their gender expression, name, pronouns and sometimes, sex characteristics in line with their identity, so that their social interactions become appropriate. The same is true of those assigned female who identify as boys.

Assuming that experiencing gender dysphoria is merely a matter of wearing clothes that are more typical of the opposite gender is to trivialise what is a real and even life-threatening condition, if the identity is not affirmed and supported socially. You can be comfortable or uncomfortable within your social construct, but the construct itself does not make you who you are. Erring on the side of caution means supporting a young person who says that their identity doesn't match their assigned sex. Failure to affirm their identity can lead to serious mental health issue.

I hope this helps. it's really only skimming over the surface

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UpstartCrow · 30/07/2018 22:52

We learnt these lessons many years ago, when it became apparent that surgeries on infants, born with ambiguous genitalia, to create a female appearance, do not guarantee that the child, no matter how assiduously raised as a girl, would identify as such

This is so disingenuous. Male children whose male genitals had not developed as expected were given reassignment surgery. They did not feel like women, because they were men who had been operated on.

That has nothing to do with people who believe they are transgender. And they are still peddling the lie that children will self harm unless they are affirmed.

thebewilderness · 30/07/2018 23:00

Replacing sex with gender identity is like replacing medicine with prayer.

Melamin · 30/07/2018 23:03

or homeopathy Sad

LanguageAsAFlower · 30/07/2018 23:03

Yes Upstart. That's what I'm so worried about. That normal ambivalence towards puberty can be framed as something that becomes "life threatening" if not affirmed.

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ThinkIveFoundYourMarbles · 30/07/2018 23:03

The government is aware that there is a conflation of sex (male or female) and gender (boy/man or girl/woman) in law and almost everywhere else because often when a person is asked how they identify, they reply 'male' or 'female which are, of course, descriptions of sex characteristics, and not the same thing as identifying as a man or a woman.

The problem is screaming at us in this statement. They think that being a man/woman or boy/girl is 'gender', not sex.

Starkstaring · 30/07/2018 23:06

That is a really helpful summary of why we are in this mess. It is the statement of faith in the gender religion and its 'one size fits all' solution.

A person assigned male at birth who does not identify as a man, will experience extreme discomfort, will ultimately be obliged to transition, to bring their gender expression, name, pronouns and sometimes, sex characteristics in line with their identity, so that their social interactions become appropriate. The same is true of those assigned female who identify as boys.

that is possibly true of a proportion of people whose gender identity of the opposite sex is unshakeable. That does not make it true for the current cohort of anxious teenagers.

(Note that the primary example is the trans woman - natal females are tagged on the end identifying as boys (not men, curiously)

LanguageAsAFlower · 30/07/2018 23:10

@Starkstaring that stood out to me too, women at the end and transitioning to "boys"

I have another screenshot of the "lesson resources"

It seems to me that they are putting the words "safe/reversible" next to pictures of teens who have taken puberty blockers. Are they safe and reversible?

GIRES school resources
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OldCrone · 30/07/2018 23:12

often when a person is asked how they identify, they reply 'male' or 'female which are, of course, descriptions of sex characteristics, and not the same thing as identifying as a man or a woman.

They have failed to grasp the most basic fact that a man is an adult male human and a woman an adult female human. 'Man' and 'woman' are not 'identities', they are biological descriptions.

Yes, the genitals indicate sex or, at least the sex you can see, but, as above, that is not an infallible indicator of a person's psychosocial understanding of themselves as a boy or girl (or non-binary). It's the brain, not the genitalia that tells you if you are a boy or a girl, or non-binary.

Same problem here - 'boy' and 'girl' describe young male and young female humans. They are not identities.

Often they are associated with unusual hormone levels prenatally.

Pseudoscience.

A person assigned male at birth who does not identify as a man, will experience extreme discomfort, will ultimately be obliged to transition, to bring their gender expression, name, pronouns and sometimes, sex characteristics in line with their identity, so that their social interactions become appropriate.

GIRES appear to be living in the 19th century, where people have to pretend to be the opposite sex in order to be gender-non-conforming.

Assuming that experiencing gender dysphoria is merely a matter of wearing clothes that are more typical of the opposite gender is to trivialise what is a real and even life-threatening condition, if the identity is not affirmed and supported socially.

Gender (or sex) dysphoria, as I understand it, is a condition where the sufferer feels revulsion towards their sexed body, so it is clearly not about wearing different clothes.

Erring on the side of caution means supporting a young person who says that their identity doesn't match their assigned sex. Failure to affirm their identity can lead to serious mental health issue.

This sounds very much like affirming to someone that their delusion represents reality. I am not sure this is the best thing to do.

UpstartCrow · 30/07/2018 23:13

They are intended to delay puberty when it starts too early. Not to be used through normal puberty.

Every cell in our body has an internal clock and knows how old it is. If you used blockers to delay puberty into your mid 20's its unlikely you would then go through a normal puberty if you stopped.

OldCrone · 30/07/2018 23:17

GIRES also have materials for very young children which tells them that they can change sex - they can choose which sex they want to be.
www.gires.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Penguin-Story-Trans-Boy.pdf

LanguageAsAFlower · 30/07/2018 23:20

Oh @OldCrone I didn't even look at that, it's hideously confusing. Imagine all those little kids going home asking their parents if they could have been wrong about their sex. Ffs

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enoughisenough12 · 30/07/2018 23:23

GIRES also tell adults working in schools to keep children's confidences and make risk assessments that individuals are not qualified to make.:
Here in module 2
cs1.e-learningforhealthcare.org.uk/public/GEV/GEV_01_001/story_html5.html?lms=1

Why would any organisation undermine safeguarding for children? Just why?

LangCleg · 30/07/2018 23:27

It is the statement of faith in the gender religion

Yep.

LanguageAsAFlower · 30/07/2018 23:36

"Tell the child they can talk to you in confidence." Literally the opposite of safeguarding. I mean I don't know any teacher who would be stupid enough to say/do this... but I bet it happens.

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Pratchet · 31/07/2018 06:27

Ironic that they use twins as an example. Identical twin studies prove there's no such thing as innate gender identity.

enoughisenough12 · 31/07/2018 06:41

Most worrying is the fact that the DfE & NHS have funded these resources. So some naive teacher may believe that they're OK, follow the advice and keep something confidential. Then when the child is harmed the teacher will face a charge of gross misconduct for failing to follow the safeguarding policy - there won't be a school in the land that tells teachers to keep confidences in these situations. It is so dangerous.

LanguageAsAFlower · 31/07/2018 06:55

I think I'll write to the DFE next. I do enjoy a summer hols letter writing campaign.

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enoughisenough12 · 31/07/2018 07:15

LanguageAsAFlower
I'm just looking at a letter from an MP telling me that gender neutral toilets in schools are preferred as they're "inclusive". I'm just in the middle of a response telling him that toilets in schools should be safe, private and afford dignity not be inclusive Angry
And pointing out that the government has just reminded schools that they must have sex segregated facilities for all those over the age of 8:
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/719398/Gender-separation-guidance.pdf

And (while I'm on a roll) if you really want to see the harm done to a child when the demands of a transgender organisation supporting an evidently unwell mother are listened to and social services start affirming a boy as a girl when they evidently weren't, take a look at this court judgement - it makes chilling reading. The emotional abuse of this child went unchecked for years and the judge is very clear about the failure to protect:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2016/2430.html

Ereshkigal · 31/07/2018 07:25

These organisations have got their claws into every organisation into the public sector giving out misleading "inclusive" advice unquestioned and fawned over by government officials.

Wanderabout · 31/07/2018 07:41

Wow. Thanks for posting. Was the reply from GIRES rather than the government? Weird it starts 'the government is aware...'

enoughisenough12 · 31/07/2018 08:09

Wanderabout Looking at the responses I've had from MPs the party line is being written by those working for / allied to trans organisations. I know this MP won't actually believe that you should have 17 year old teenage boys sharing changing rooms and toilets with 12 year old girls. But they are so frightened of being called transphobic that all critical thinking is suspended and they meekly parrot the TRA line .
I am struggling to write back 'respectfully' to the 'gender neutral toilets in schools are preferred as they're inclusive" comment. I just want to shout and roar at the sheer ignorance of the comment, not to mention the way he deliberately ignores the rates of sexual harassment in schools.

OrchidInTheSun · 31/07/2018 08:30

GIRES also have a document on their website in which they claim that transition can cure autism

OrchidInTheSun · 31/07/2018 08:30

GIRES also have a document on their website in which they claim that transition can cure autism

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