Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Guardian article on lesbians, sex and orgasms goes trans inclusive and loses coherence

31 replies

5inga5ong · 11/07/2018 12:30

Did anyone else see this article this weekend?

Do Lesbians Have Better Sex Than Straight Women

It's quite a typical broadsheet feature on sex - light reading, no deep research, a few light supporting interviews, etc. Just the sort of thing you'd expect to find in the features section, really.

It does come a bit of a cropper when it tries to be trans-inclusive in one of its supporting paragraphs, though. Not, I'd like to point out, BECAUSE it is trying to be inclusive, but because although I've read it several times I think the author's efforts to inclusivity have made her writing ambiguous and left her point unsupported.. (I can't imagine what it must be like to be a sub editor these days.)

^Jessica says that women tend to be better at listening and communicating in bed (and perhaps outside of the bedroom, too – it is not clear whether those abundant news stories about women speaking thousands more words a day than men stand up, but understanding and empathy are areas in which women excel). There is a strong emotional connection between women, too.

Alice Martin, a 20-year-old trans lesbian, says the same. “As a woman having sex with another woman, it’s a completely mind-bending experience. The mix of care, love, romance, pleasure, emotion and intensity is something that I never experienced with men.”^

So, the author is taking the position that women are more emotional and feel sex more emotionally than men do. (I personally disagree with this as it doesn't match up with my lived experience, but hey ho.)

The ambiguity is around Alice's situation, identify, context, and how it relates to the point that author is making about women being more emotionally connected in sex then men are.

  • At first, I thought Alice was born male and identified as straight, and she transitioned to being a transwoman and then identified as lesbian. Then I realised that she was comparing her sexual experiences with men and with women.
  • So then I thought that Alice was born male and identified as bi, but then transitioned to being a transwoman stopped being bi and became lesbian only. (This seems most likely to me, but it's not clear. And of course then I want to know Alice's story and why bi was okay, but then not, even if it's not the point of the article.)

And THEN I started wondering, if you're in a male body but you've only had emotional sex when you let yourself be emotional because you are thinking of yourself as a woman, is the emotional bit really attached to "being a woman" or is it attached "giving yourself permission to have emotionally connected sex with someone else who is emotionally connected?"

And then I started thinking that the author needed to have another quote to bolster her "women have more emotionally connected sex than men do" point, but from a natal female identifying as bi who enjoyed sex with men and women but who found her same sex experiences more emotionally connected. But that wasn't there.

And then I realised that the article starts off with links to a website full of drawings of different types of vulvas to help women feel better and more normalised about their female genitals so they can have better female orgasms, and then my headed exploded with the contradictions and I stopped reading.

OP posts:
CosmicCanary · 12/07/2018 06:06

Males cannot be lesbians.
It is homophobic to say they can.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 12/07/2018 06:12

Ah so the sex change believers are making stuff up again and talking word salad- again - says more about them than anything else.

It's such a shame the Guardian has chosen the tabloid click bait route and left fact and investigative journalism behind. They never recovered from the battering taken at being involved with the Snowden leak - changed editors and got a lib fem in charge - it shows.

FriendOfScarecrow · 12/07/2018 10:20

I read this the other day and nearly started a thread, I thought it was awful. And that was before the translesbian got a mention. I'm suprised to many people here seem to think it was otherwsie OK.

So there is no difference between straight and gay men re orgasms.

BUT

For lesbians they have more orgasmes because they understand female bodies more. So why aren't gay men having better sex than straight men?

Lesbians have better sex because "women communicate better". SO why aren't gay men having terrible sex,as both being men they must be grunting at each other.

And aren't all these straight women commuicating their desires to their male parnters with their superior communication skills, so why aren't they having good sex? Are straight men deaf?

The discussion around the clitoris like it's some sort of no man's land that men have never heard of and dragons be there.

No mention of the fact that we live in a patriarchy where straight men just don't have to make any effort, so they don't.
So much conflicting bad excuses for the orgasm gap.

And because the Guardian are super woke, they bring in a trans lesbian who will know more about a clitoris than any other man, but they don't really talk about what the TW does for her partners, but for how mind blowing the sex is for the TW.

Fucking shocker there.

FriendOfScarecrow · 12/07/2018 10:21

they bring in a trans lesbian who won't^ know more about a clitoris than any other man,

Offred · 12/07/2018 10:55

Scarecrow that’s a brilliant analysis!

leopardprintsocks · 12/07/2018 13:15

There is an article in vice too which is quite graphic and seems to be about how to be a man having sex with a woman but pretending it's two women

https://broadly.vice.com/enus/article/594mak/how-to-eat-out-a-non-op-trans-woman-oral-sex?utmm_source=vicefbus

New posts on this thread. Refresh page