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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Biology Isn't Bigotry

35 replies

TriciaF · 04/07/2018 18:24

To understand how the sex of any individual is determined we need to start at the formation of the gametes (eggs and sperm). Gametes are produced by a type of cell division known as meiosis, or reduction division. Every cell (except the gametes) in our bodies contains 23 pairs of chromosomes. One of each pair came from our mother and one from our father. There are 22 pairs of autosomes and one pair of sex chromosomes.

These chromosomes contain the 20,000 – 25,000 genes that control our appearance and physiology. Between the genes lie non-coding segments which form the bulk of the DNA and used to be thought of as mostly “junk”. However, it is now known that at least 80% of these non-coding segments have essential controlling roles (An integrated encyclopedia of DNA)

Meiosis separates the chromosome pairs – one chromosome from each pair is allocated to “intermediate cells” (primary oocytes and spermatocytes), but not before pieces of information have been swapped between the pairs (known as crossing over – see below). The primary oocytes and spermatocytes which contain a mix of chromosomes from our mother and father divide again. The result is that each gamete has half the genetic information found in the parent cells (23 chromosomes) and this set of information is different from other gametes, no two sperm are identical, neither are any two ova.

Meiosis

The stages of meiosis are shown in the image below. A detailed description of the process can be found here.

meiosis_yourgenomeImage from: www.yourgenome.org/facts/what-is-meiosis

In this greatly simplified version there is only one chromosome pair represented by the dark blue and light blue chromosomes. Humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes, the alignment of the pairs in metaphase I (Independent Assortment) is random. There are 8,324,608 possible combinations of the 23 chromosome pairs. This plus crossing over and random fertilization are key to variation and result in a unique combination of genes in each fertilized egg.

The process of meiosis is carefully controlled and coordinated to ensure that the gametes have just one copy of each of the chromosomes, but errors can happen (see Abnormalities in Gametogenesis).

Crossing Over

Each of the chromosomes in primary oocytes and spermatocytes is duplicated before meiosis begins – given the familiar “X” shape that we associate with chromosomes. These identical chromatids remain joined together throughout the first meiotic division (meiosis I), but are separated in the final stages of meiosis. When the homologous pairs come together in the Prophase I of meiosis, crossing over occurs between chromatids of the homologous pairs. Crossing over normally only occurs between equivalent sections of the chromosomes (shown in the diagram as A & a). Each chromosome contains dozens to thousands of different genes. The total possible combination of different versions of these genes (alleles) in humans is approximately 70,368,744,177,664. .

Crossing Over in the Sex Chromosomes

xx-male1Crossing over usually only occurs at 2 regions on the sex chromosomes, these are labelled PAR1 and PAR2 and are located at the ends of both the chromosomes. These regions do not contain any sex-specific chromosome. In very rare circumstances (1:20.000), the SRY region of the Y chromosome crosses over to the X, this may result in an males are phenotypically and psychosexually male 46,XX male syndrome is www.urology-textbook.com/46XX-males.html

Abnormalities in Gametogenesis

Normally, oogenesis produces ova with 22 autosomes and 1 X-chromosome, and spermatogenesis produces sperm with 22 autosomes and either an X-chromosome or Y-chromosome. Abnormalities in segregation of the chromosomes, known as nondisjunction, can result in gametes with either too many or too few of a particular chromosome. Embryos which have more than or fewer than 46 chromosomes are usually not viable, however there are exceptions such as Down’s syndrome in which individuals have 3 copies (trisomy) of chromosome 21; Patau syndrome, trisomy of chromosome 13; or Edwards syndrome; trisomy of chromosome 18. Nondisjunction of the sex chromosomes can also occur leading to anomalies such as:

Klinefelter syndrome – extra X chromosomes in males – i.e. XXY, XXXY, XXXXY, etc.
Turner syndrome – lacking one X chromosome in females – i.e. X0
Triple X syndrome – an extra X chromosome in females
XYY syndrome – an extra Y chromosome in males.
More information can be found here

Gamete Formation

In females, the total number of eggs ever to be produced are present in the newborn female. These are arrested at an early stage of meiosis I from foetal life through childhood until puberty, when surges in luteinizing hormone (LH) stimulate the resumption of meiosis. Following puberty, during each menstrual cycle, Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH) stimulates completion of meiosis I (usually in 1 but occasionally in more oocytes) the day before ovulation. The second part of meiosis which results in a mature ovum does not occur unless the ovum is fertilized. In females the meiotic divisions are uneven resulting in the production of a single ovum from each primary oocyte, and 1-3 polar bodies. In males, sperm production starts at puberty and continues throughout life. Division of each Spermatocyte will produce 4 spermatozoa (sperm).

gametogenesis

Fertilization restores the number of chromosomes to 46; 44 autosomes and either XX or XY. Hence the sex of the offspring is determined at fertilization. The zygote (fertilized egg) is totipotent (capable of forming any body cell) and is the progenitor of all of the cells in the off-springs body (plus the placenta and foetal membranes).

To summarise:

Sex is determined at fertilisation

99% human zygotes are XX or XY
The totipotent zygote is the progenitor of all cells in the individual
All ♂ cells have XY chromosomes
All ♀ cells have XX chromosomes
X cannot be changed to Y
Men cannot become women
If an egg is fertilised by an X-bearing chromosome, the offspring will be ♀.
If the sperm is Y-bearing, the offspring will be ♂.
This occurs >99% of the time. X & Y chromosomes are totally different & in no way interchangeable
“Primary sex determination is the determination of the gonads. In mammals, primary sex determination is strictly chromosomal and is not usually influenced by the environment. In most cases, the female is XX and the male is XY. Every individual must have at least one X chromosome. Since the female is XX, each of her eggs has a single X chromosome. The male, being XY, can generate two types of sperm: half bear the X chromosome, half the Y. If the egg receives another X chromosome from the sperm, the resulting individual is XX, forms ovaries, and is female; if the egg receives a Y chromosome from the sperm, the individual is XY, forms testes, and is male.” (From Developmental Biology by Scott Gilbert)

Detailed current information can be found here: embryology.med.unsw.edu.au/embryology/index.php/Fertilization

Biology Isn't Bigotry
Biology Isn't Bigotry
Biology Isn't Bigotry
OP posts:
aaarrrggghhhh · 05/07/2018 13:23

Who’s the CCG? Thanks!

Bespin · 05/07/2018 13:52

Ya aaarrrggghhhh the nhs as a very strange way of trying to record us, the transgender box tells. You nothing at all and would probably not be used by people I have brought it up in the ccg but its a national thing so needs adding even if it makes no sence

ChattyLion · 05/07/2018 14:02

CCG = clinical commissioning group. What Andrew Lansley replaced Primary care Trusts with. They allocate the pots of money to specific NHS services in accordance with evidence of need.

YomTov · 05/07/2018 14:02

CCG is Clinical Commissioning Group - the body that makes decision about healthcare in your local area. Each area has its own CCG.

aaarrrggghhhh · 05/07/2018 14:13

Thanks ChattyLion

I think I will dash off an email. To me it just summarises the danger of this whole debate to all people.

ChattyLion · 05/07/2018 16:40

argh - There’s also Healthwatch- the independent national champion for people who use health and social care services. Healthwatch.co.uk. They have local branches. They are supposed to be a place to raise issues about the NHS services you are offered and to help to let people know of changes being made to them so the patient voice can be heard. Maybe worth an e-mail?

aaarrrggghhhh · 05/07/2018 16:47

I am setting aside next week - when I shall also be analysing The Consultation - to release a torrent of emails.

Hell hath no fury like a woman whose definition is being erased.

R0wantrees · 22/07/2018 07:22

this is info for the Chief Medical Officer, Professor Dame Sally Davies

"Dame Sally was appointed Chief Medical Officer (CMO) for England and Chief Medical Advisor to the UK government in March 2011, having held the post on an interim basis since June 2010. She is an independent adviser to the government on medical matters, with particular responsibilities regarding public health."

tweets here: twitter.com/cmo_england

www.gov.uk/government/people/sally-davies

BarrackerBarmer · 22/07/2018 13:45

Are we happy with our rights and social groupings being decided by our genes? Thought we'd fought a couple of wars against the people who thought that was a good idea.

Absolutely.
I'm happy to be categorised by facts, where the situation calls for it. Preferable to being categorised by fiction.

Has XX chromosomes and female reproductive physiology = fact.
Has an invisible identity which is indescribable, unrelated to that physiology and yet should be called 'woman' and used for the purposes of segregation? = Fiction

When people with XX chromosomes are ALSO the same people denied reproductive and voting rights, and who are oppressed and enslaved and raped and underrepresented? It's useful to have a word that acknowledges the factual biological category of the former, to understand and dismantle the reasons that they ALSO end up experiencing the social category of the latter.

I belong to biological category A.
This results, UNNECESSARILY, in society treating me as social category B.
B ONLY exists because A does.
We don't solve the problem of B by pretending that A doesn't exist.
We get rid of all of the fictions that B attached to A instead.
Fictions like:
'Female' Personality
'Female' competence
'Female' cognitive ability
'Female' behavioural traits

So yes, I happily acknowledge facts. We all should.

That way we can detach the fictions that perfidiously become attached to them.

TriciaF · 22/07/2018 17:59

Well said!

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