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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Twitter thread: no impact assessments carried out for school guidance in Scotland

164 replies

SunsetBeetch · 04/06/2018 17:33

Well this is concerning, although probably not surprising:

Government funded school guidance has been issued across Scotland, endorsed by Children's Commissioner, charities, LA's etc which discards the need for single sex spaces/sports t.co/ye3ekBGSEi

No Equality Impact Assessments were carried out, neither by the organisations who compiled the guidance nor the Local Authorities who have distributed it amongst their schools.

OP posts:
R0wantrees · 06/06/2018 08:56

GibbertyFlibbert's recent opinions:
-'There is much to dislike about Vancouver Rape Relief. In fact, I think it is an organisation with odious views' re Morgane Oger

& discussion of a woman's request for a female nurse to do an intimate gyny examination Green Party thread

"If a white patient insisted she wouldn't be treated by a black nurse the patient would be being racist and the hospital would be in their rights not to treat her. Exactly the same if a patient objects to a trans nurse"

cf inews.co.uk/news/health/nhs-woman-transgender-nurse-smear-test/

GibbertyFlibbert · 06/06/2018 09:07

Protection hasn't been removed from female.

What is happening is that some feminists are trying to redefine female. They are then complaining that the protections in place don't align with their new definition and that therefore the protections aren't in place.

GibbertyFlibbert · 06/06/2018 09:09

And your point is? I am against discrimination and stereotyping. Two cornerstones of feminism so far as I am concerned

Ereshkigal · 06/06/2018 09:10

What is happening is that some feminists are trying to redefine female.

Lol Grin that's definitely one for the "most outrageous reversal" prize. Female never has included male. HTH.

Despite the bit of paper from the Ministry of Truth.

Lemonjello · 06/06/2018 09:15

feminists are trying to redefine female

Lol indeed. Feminists are quite happy with the dictionary definition of female. It’s not us who want to change it! ConfusedHmm

dragongirlx · 06/06/2018 09:19

UptheDuffy An equality impact assessment (if one were done) would likely raise issues under the categories or sex and religion and belief

Exactly I undertake and approve equality impact assessments in my job and these are exactly the areas that I have concerns about. I have asked my LA for the impact assessment but have had no response. If they say they haven't done one I will raise these concerns

Bowlofbabelfish · 06/06/2018 09:21

What is happening is that some feminists are trying to redefine female

Ye gods - those feminists! With their scientific and .... um... factual and .... err correct definition of female!

What are they thinking? Using an accepted and evidence based term correctly? How dare they?

R0wantrees · 06/06/2018 09:28

From the thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3269463-Government-response-to-the-petition

what BarrackerBarmer said:

"The rights of the entire female population of the UK - 33 million - to be

  1. recognised in law as biologically female
  2. acknowledged as fundamentally, permanently and irrevocably different from males
  3. afforded the right to spaces in the absence of all males
  4. acknowledged as the biological group for which all such rights were designated

those rights - the entirety of ALL rights for ALL females- now reside in a tiny little exemption clause buried within a piece of legislation called the Equality Act 2010 which must be
a. invoked on a case by case basis (and yet currently is not)
b. justified to men in each of those cases.

That clause, that little exemption that says FEMALES have rights that apply to us and to us alone, is the ONLY part of the law where our actual rights remain."

SoddingUnicorns · 06/06/2018 09:31

What is happening is that some feminists are trying to redefine female

You think it’s feminists trying to redefine female???

Pratchet · 06/06/2018 09:38

In addition, the governments LGBT Head of Equalities has said, in relation to the Equality Act exemptions: 'the bar will be high and it will not be carte blanche to be trans exclusionary'

the bar will be high. - direct quote from government

Pratchet · 06/06/2018 09:44

We should be afraid. It's not academic. It's hostile, aggressive men demanding everything that is ours. Governments are caving because they sulk and tantrum.

A man stands in front of a government policy creator and says: 'my brain is the opposite sex: give me women's rights'. And the policy maker says - 'yes, here they are'.

Anyone who supports this has lost their moral compass.

Caribou58 · 06/06/2018 10:31

Speaking as someone who used to run a school, I can tell you that it's staggering how many headteachers - especially primary heads - think that 'guidance' means 'this is the law and you must do it'.

Make no mistake, however - the TRA lobby is conducting a very clever campaign indeed. They are whittling away, removing 'barriers' so that they can say 'well, it's all happening everywhere now, so why not just put self-id in the law? '

Pratchet · 06/06/2018 10:44

Yes that's exactly the tactic.

Lemonjello · 06/06/2018 11:00

The one thing I think we might have in our favour when it comes to schools is the number of gender critical parents compared to the number of trans activist parents.

I mean, I’m sure there are a few but the trans activist demographic veers more towards the blue haired student rather than the middle aged PTA member, hence why mumsnet is the gender critical stronghold that it is.

I think this particular battle may come down to individual parents challenging their child’s schools on how they protect the privacy, dignity and safety of their daughters.

A guide for how they might do that would be helpful...

Pratchet · 06/06/2018 11:13

But fear the PTA queen bee with a 'trans kid' ....

Lemonjello · 06/06/2018 11:15

True.

R0wantrees · 06/06/2018 11:18

Speaking as someone who used to run a school, I can tell you that it's staggering how many headteachers - especially primary heads - think that 'guidance' means 'this is the law and you must do it'

(extract from recent Guardian article)
"Susie Green, CEO of the charity Mermaids, disagrees, saying the debate about single-sex toilets seems “engineered to whip up fear” and is equivalent to “arguing people of colour shouldn’t be allowed to use the same toilets as white people in case they make them dirty”

Claire Birkenshaw, a transgender former headteacher, says the wide range of different advice creates confusion and conflict. “There needs to be clear statutory guidance for schools that incorporates the views of experts from education, the medical profession, the Equality and Human Rights Commission and trans people,” she says. “Rows about a vulnerable and marginalised group in education are not helpful.”

The EHRC is planning to issue guidance of its own next month, something Birkenshaw welcomes. “Schools want to support the transgender young person, but at the same time they’ll be reflecting on how other children may feel, on how staff are going to feel and parents.”

Davies-Arai says her broader concern is that by affirming students’ gender identity, schools may be nudging them down a route that can lead to cross-sex hormones and life-changing surgery without enough time to reflect. Teachers, she says, “are essentially being forced to collude in an experimental approach towards children with gender dysphoria”. She adds: “You can support children and accept them, without affirming their belief that their body is ‘wrong’.”

Adele Robinson (not her real name), a head of year at a secondary school, shares Davies-Arai’s worries. The school has had 12 children, all girls, come out as transgender in the past 18 months. The majority, she says, have autism, and some have experienced sexual abuse."
www.theguardian.com/education/2018/may/15/transgender-row-teachers-afraid-challenge-breast-binding

Opheliah · 06/06/2018 11:23

The one thing I think we might have in our favour when it comes to schools is the number of gender critical parents compared to the number of trans activist parents

Not sure... I think it would be equal pro-trans to GC critical parents, and everyone else totally unaware, just wants to do the "right" thing for poor vulnerable brave trans children....

The guidance itself on the very first page, it's all about how all transkids are bullied, self harm, commit suicide, and starts out basically guilt tripping you into going along with it. I see why most people would go along with it until late they actually dare to think a bit.

LangCleg · 06/06/2018 11:43

Some very good work being done by @mrkhtake2 on Twitter vis a vis the trans lobby school training packs and especially on the sections about SEND children, which directly contradicts SENDCOP, the legislative guidance on this.

Lemonjello · 06/06/2018 11:45

Would you be able to link please LangCleg?

Lemonjello · 06/06/2018 11:47

Some of us have set up a campaign group in Scotland to address these issues. We don't want to say much right now as we feel it wouldn't be helpful at this point, but we have been aware of the issues raised below for some time & want to let people know we are working hard on this.

mobile.twitter.com/Indy_Leya/status/1004305575046537216

LangCleg · 06/06/2018 12:01

twitter.com/mrkhtake2/with_replies

Just scroll through the timeline for the past few days.

R0wantrees · 06/06/2018 12:31

Oliver Burkeman (Guardian)

twitter.com/oliverburkeman/status/1004033619118182400

Also see Kathleen Stock, philosophy academic:
twitter.com/Docstockk/status/1004291594722430977
writes here: medium.com/@kathleenstock

& Lisa Muggeridge @lisamuggeridge4

Twitter thread: no impact assessments carried out for school guidance in Scotland
R0wantrees · 06/06/2018 12:34

Oliver Burkeman (Guardian)

twitter.com/oliverburkeman/status/1004152461815410690

Twitter thread: no impact assessments carried out for school guidance in Scotland
R0wantrees · 06/06/2018 12:35

Apologies!

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