"Drinking in pregnancy could be made illegal"

[trevortrevorslattery]

Errrrr:

Link here

It's a story about a specific case where a child has suffered as a result of her mother's alcohol intake whilst pregnant, but

Clare Murphy from the British Pregnancy Advisory Service said the case risks setting a dangerous precedent.

“If a woman finds herself in this situation we really need them to confide in health professionals, not criminalising pregnant women when what they need is help and resources," she said.

I think this is a feminist issue because it would take away a woman's autonomy over her own body. I am not advocating that women should get pissed all the time whilst pregnant, for the avoidance of doubt.

Hopefully it's not likely that this would ever become law though.

The second from women?

I think there is a crime to do with poisoning of a fetus.

Yes, looks like that's how this case first went through, and was then thrown out on the first appeal because of the personhood issue:

www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/10612818/Drinking-alcohol-during-pregnancy-could-be-ruled-a-crime.html

From above link:

But she was alleged to have maliciously administered poison so as to endanger life or inflict grievous bodily harm, a crime under section 23 of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861.

However, the Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority challenged the judgment, and it was overturned in December by the upper tribunal of the Administrative Appeals Chamber.

Judge Howard Levenson found that there had been “administration of a poison or other destructive or noxious thing, so as thereby to inflict grievous bodily harm”.

However, he concluded that the girl was “not a person” in legal terms at the time because she was still a foetus.

The judge added: “I conclude that the section 23 offence cannot be committed by a pregnant woman drinking alcohol during her pregnancy and thereby causing damage to her unborn child and that, in the present case, no evidence or argument has been offered in respect of the commission of any other offence.”

Oddly, Yonic, no. It was men saying that women who drink while pregnant should be criminalised.

Wow. I mean, what is this about?

"if you have a single drink when you're pregnant"

NICE guidelines allow 1-2 units a week, iirc!

I can't believe that a council of all people would act so enormously against the interests of the female UK population in order to get some cash.

I sincerely hope that they fail in this or we are truly fucked, the ramifications are enormous. It would achieve in one move what right-wing religious types & anti-abortionists have been desperately trying to achieve in the US for years.

For fucks sake.

Because how someone be a victim of a crime without said crime being defined?

It's a good question. I don't know the answer but i feel sure the legal system would find a way to create a criminalless crime.

Ah, I see your link now Yonic. Obviously I was being complacent.

I mean, there's still a leap to be made from a precedent in a compensation case to a woman being arrested and the CPS deciding to prosecute. But if the precedent does make that possible then we or I anyway shouldn't be complacent.

Yonic

a single drink

I asked this before but clearly there's no answer - what about women who take Holy Communion therefore drink a very small amount of alcohol while pg? I honestly don't see how that could or would be banned.

and why stop there? ban pate and blue vein cheeses. and sugar. and peanuts and seafood. and criminalise people who don't vaccinate their kids, therefore putting pg women in harm's way - coulf potentially contracte measles and have a late miscarriage. and should that happen that babies grandparents should also go to prison because they've also failed to vaccinate their own daughter!

what else?

This is just bonkers.....

*who could potentially contract..

ok I'll just apologise for terrible typos. sorry
I'm sure you know what I mean

Does it also mean that women like me could be criminalised because I have 2 children on the autistic spectrum, which has a string genetic component? Especially as DS1 was displaying fairly obvious signs of it before DS2 was conceived?

DS2 has needed specialist education, and will probably need support for the rest of his life.

Or a friend who is a carrier for CF. Should she be criminalised if she becomes pregnant, and doesn't abort any foetus which tests positive for CF?

oh puffins

Sorry Puffins, I posted on the other thread referencing your post, I hope I wasn't speaking out of turn

This could potentially affect nearly 15 million women of child-bearing age in the UK.
There are 80 cases annually of FAS. The % risk of drinking causing FAS seems small and the interaction with other factors is complex, e.g. CDC study
A pregnant alcoholic might not think of abortion, but if she were arrested for drinking, her lawyer might explain the options: abortion or conviction / jail.

All part of a trend to prioritise a foetus, even before conception - not just before birth - above an existing live woman, e.g a doctor wanted to ban women of childbearing age from taking antidepressants BanMeds

Yonic, it's fine, I'm not going back to that thread, one poster in particular worries the hell out of me.

This does feel like slippery slope, thin end of the wedge type stuff though. Yet another disadvantaged sub group of a disadvantaged group being victimised, with potentially disastrous consequences for all women.

Yy puffins.

I think the appeal court will say no again though, and I hope so, because there are other such cases ready if they say yes. I don't see how the current law could allow this so hopefully will be ok.

Drinking alcohol is not illegal. The fetus has no rights in UK law until it takes it's first extra uterine breath. How can drinking in pregnancy possibly be a crime? Criminalising drinking alcohol in pregnancy sets an extremely dangerous precedent in removing women's autonomy over their own bodies. Like others have said, there would be massive implications in terms of criminalising any behaviour which might possibly damage the fetus. Wrong, wrong, wrong.