Is it just me? X-Factor...

[robindeer]

The dancers.

Is it just me who finds semi-nude, writhing women slightly inappropriate on what is supposedly a family show? It's practically required viewing for many pre-teens and teenagers, is it really okay to see women on their backs with their legs apart in front of a group of pubescent boys? Or in denim cut-offs thrusting into a contestant, mouths open, porn-style?

I know I don't have to watch it...

and the attitudes not the clothes that need to change.

Suggesting or joking that dancers are told to "SHUT UP AND TWERK, BITCH!" does not sit well with me. it suggests that the dancers do mot know their own minds and have no agency, and it comes across as a bit dismissive and judgemental towards them.

I would have thought it was obvious that my judgement in making this joke was in no way aimed at the dancers. Apparently not. So I apologise if you took it in a way in which it was not intended and were offended.

and Andrea wasn't 'spayed', as far as I could tell (no soprano notes hit)...he was 'sprayed'.

I've only just seen your post on the other thread, I'm not a prolific mnetter so had missed that entire thread. Apologies if I've rehashed an old argument- not my intention and I hope my creating this thread hasn't been misconstrued as goady.

I do see your point about Pan's People but there are huge differrences between then and now. For instance, I don't think they ever appeared almost nude, twerking. They also tended to appear in place of the act, rather than to titillate the act, if that makes sense. Or at least to appear as if they are. Female artists were less obviously sexualised even so little as a decade ago. I distinctly remember All Saints being described as sexy because they were wearing vest tops. Of course there are exceptions but that is just the point, they were exceptions. Madonna would barely cause a raised eyebrow these days amongst Nicki Minaj, Rihanna and Miley Cyrus.

In terms of dance as performance art- absolutely. Who better as an example than Kate Bush? Often described as 'sexy' while never sexualised. Lady Gaga performs such hypersexualised routines and uses costume in such an extreme way that her gender itself has been called into question. God forbid a woman could be so in control while performing in such a sexual way.

My issue with the X Factor dancers is nothing at all to do with their ability, energy or commitment to their profession. I do doubt that they get a great deal of control over costume but that's a side issue. It's the normalisation of sexualised behaviour in women for an audience made up predominantly of children that concerns me. I hope this doesn't read as pearl clutching or prudishness, I am genuinely concerned about the impact the pornification of light entertainment is having on children. Girls and boys.

Hi OP, no worries, didn't think you were goading . I'm not a regular either, just dip in occasionally.

I don't think X Factor is aimed at children. It's usually on around 8pm, beyond the bedtime of very young children I think? It finished after 10pm last night. According to this it's popular with young adults 16+ www.fremantlemedia.com/About_Us/Ratings_Highlights.aspx (how much dross does this company produce, incidetally?!).

This link www.itvmedia.co.uk/the-x-factor says the target is young (not children) and housewives with children, which in itself is a bit . But if those children stay up and watch it's the parent's lookout. I don't know about censorship of light entertainment, targeted at adults, broadcast around the watershed, on the off chance that a child might see it. Porn, yes, but a woman in hotpants, not so much. That's for parents to manage amd explain to the child.

I did wonder about Pan's People being quaint but then I looked them up and to be frank I found some of their routines worse than what I saw last night. This, (actually this is a bit Lady Gaga)

This this made even me and it's nearly 41 years old. So I don't think things are worse today.

I'm 30 so the 90s were my era. It was obviously the greatest decade of all time, but I don't think things are worse now than then, I just think they are more visible. There was nothing like X Factor then, the nearest things were Top of the Pops or the Smash Hits Poll Winners' Party, which were both definitely aimed at kids or younger teenagers. Also there was no social media. But there was still sexualisation of women in pop performances. I distinctly remember an All Saints one (it might have been an MTV award ceremony around 1998) where they did Lady Marmalade (there's that song again) and on the "where do you think you're sleeping tonight?" line, they'd push a male dancer's head to their crotches as if they were giving oral sex. And they didnt want to be seen as sexy, they wanted to be about the music. I remember an interview with Mel Blatt moaning about when All Saints were booked in for an FHM cover shoot and she wasn't expecting what she was asked to do, and was offended at having to remove her cardigan. If I remember rightly the shoot went ahead anyway and was airbrushed to make them look more naked.

I don't necessarily think there is no cause for concern, and I don't think just because things have been a certain way in the past we must accept them forevermore, but I don't necessarily think things are worse today than 10-15 years ago (Thong Song), 25 years ago (all manner of rap videos that I used to see on music channels) or 40 years ago with PP, Legs and Co, Hot Gossip...

For the record, especially with the benefit of hindsight, I am not suggesting we should take our cues on decency from what was on Top of the Pops in the 70s...

Blimey, I don't remember pans people like that!

I thought they had gauzy flared trousers and wafted about a bit!

On what planet is X Factor family viewing?

I enjoy it, but there is no way I would let my 9 year old watch it.

Its tacky, but I fail to see any real problems with it as long as it is seen as adult viewing.

Crumbs! I was a 70's boy (nothing can compare to it), and with a vague recollection of that second vid as it was shocking even then. Still, my!