DS doesn't believe girls are as good as boys

[Rhubarbcrumbled]

And I need to change his mind! He's just started school so is still quite young, but I really don't want his views to carry on as he grows up. He's obsessed with history and especially knights and kings, although he's branched out to WW2, Vikings, Romans...basically any warfaring society. He doesn't accept that women did and can fight in an army or serve their country in any meaningful way. As an example yesterday he insisted we must have a king as 'queens can't be in charge of the army'. He was also pretty insistent that all the queens in history don't count. And no amount of examples I could give him would work.

I need help to change his mind. He idolises his Dad who works full time, who has his own 'study' in the house that DS really admires (but that's another story!), who does do 'stuff' with them but generally leaves the house to me (again, another story) but who shares a love of information and research with DS. And this goes way beyond just reading! And he is a very loving and well loved dad. I, on the other hand, am a doer (although I'm a researcher by trade!) and DS1 just doesn't appreciate that as much as a sitter and a thinker. And I do accept that DS and I are very different people!

This was getting quite long and into other territory! We have some family issues around work in the house and relationships to sort out, but what I really need are ways to start addressing DS's opinions. He likes girls and has them as friends so that's a start.

So, can anyone suggest some good examples of strong historical women that we can tempt him with. There needs to be an interesting book about them (not necessarily for a 5yo- he can cope with non-fiction well above his age) and that would be interesting to research 'around' e.g. the town they lived in, places they visited, interesting friends...you get the idea! Or any other ideas for addressing the 'girls aren't as good as boys' conundrum.

Ada Lovelace.

While Babbage was inventing a machine that could do maths she was a) programming it and b) theorising that mathematical machines would one day solve problems that had little to do with maths such as automated time tables for travel and calendars and well the things computers do now.

There is a programming language names after her - Ada it is still used in the travel industry for booking holidays/flights.

Boudicca, Cleopatra, Amy Johnson..? A book like 'Pirate Girl' could be good too.

Is he too young for horrible histories on CBBC? I think they do a really good job of showing both men and women doing stuff, eg: they did a little dance number about Rosa Parks...

But the balance if power and housework in your home is what he will be learning from the most and what needs addressing IMHO

Sticking with computers Admiral Grace Murray Hopper invented COBOL amongst other things. The term debugging is because she had to remove dead bugs from the huge computer she worked with.

Elizabeth I obviously, queen Anne, Flora Sandes (actually look at the Serbian army in WWI in general), Maria Frolkova, Dorothy Lawrence.

We are working on the relationship and house 'stuff' and it is getting better. But I'll always be more of doer than DH and it's something I've accepted. I love gardening and cooking and camping and he loves readings and films and gentle walks around stately homes. And that's what DS loves too. So I'm working with what we've got atm.

He's just got very into HH so I'll try and find more of the songs about women. And I'll have a look for Pirate Girl. He was quite interested in Joan D'Arc in France this summer too so I'll find something on her too. Ada Lovelace sounds great!

And we're reconfiguring the house so I get a room of my own too! Well, more of a large cupboard, but it'll be mine!

Some of the SOE women in WW2.
Some earlier examples of women dressing as men to join the army/ navy- have a chat about women wanting to do the same things but how they have been discriminated against and how that isn't fair. Ask him how he would feel if the situation was reversed.

My two school age DDs feel that boys aren't as good as girls.
In our extended families the men/boys underperform in all areas - unemployed, lazy, alcoholics, truant etc. The woman are strong, articulate and successful. They prop these men up.

It's very hard to use examples from history when the very people they know demonstrates what they believe.

Sorry I didn't mean that about you OP, just my circumstances

I too think that showing your ds various historical women won't have half as much impact as you having respect within your own house. Is your DH concerned about his son's opinion? Is he aware of his part in forming it?

Where do you think he got these ideas from?

Because it is by countering the influence (not just providing counter-examples) that the real effect will come.

His criteria for judging historical figures seems to be based on how good they were in battle. Maybe he is just going through a phase where this is particularly interesting for him? Unfortunately/fortunately its pretty obvious that throughout history women in battle have tended to be the exception rather than the rule.

The subtleties of why this is may not be interesting to him at 4/5. I don't think that means that he is destined to be a sexist pig though - just that he might have to grow up a bit before he is interested in that kind of discussion.

I think a bigger problem would be if your contribution to the household is valued less than his father's.

I can't find the link cos I'm on my phone but it should be was to google for it. Recently archeological scientists found that about half the Viking skeletons that have been found over the years, all of whom were buried with swords and shields and were clearly warriors, were actually women. They didn't notice before because there was no discernable difference in the funereal practice, so it was only spotted when someone looked at the pelvis shapes.

I love gardening and cooking and camping

he loves readings and films and gentle walks around stately homes.

Well I know which of you I'd rather have next to me on a black ops mission behind enemy lines! I'd say leave the books behind and go with your strengths and show your DS how to do and make a few things.

DH is concerned but hasn't heard as much as me or maybe doesn't take it as seriously. Ironically, all the women in the family including me are professionals (higher degree educated) and we all still work at least part time. I'm part time because it fits in with how I want to live life as well as the family life. And in the difficult times we've just been through it's been me who has held it all together and enabled us to continue as a family. He adores his dad because they're interested in the same things and are very similar in outlook. But DS is too young to understand all this and so we're working on that alongside trying to give him a bit if scope of what women are capable of.

As great as it is to show him examples of famous women in history I think it's also important to teach him why there weren't that many: lack of access to education, lack of contraception, childcare responsibilities, attitudes to women who spoke in public, etc.

Although not sure how you'd do this without sounding too negative.

You could also show him the bad side of war (although again negative!). I've never understood why men are so proud of their warfaring tradition! To me it's certainly not something that makes them "superior".

I agree with others, his opinions will mainly be formed by his own life experiences and environment.
If I started droning on about historical figures my 5 yr old's eyes would glaze over.
My own ds thought boys were better at sport as that's what the boys in his class told him, soon changed his mind when a girl in his class won every single race on sports day.
It's an ongoing battle though, I see gender stereotyping amongst his peers despite their young years, I just try to lead by example.

Is he seeing his dad doing the housework?

The girls at school will soon put him straight.

Have a look at website/Facebook for Toward The Stars and A Mighty Girl.
They have lots of suggestions for female role models and gender neutral resources.

I always look to our 3 longest serving monarchs who are all queens. You don't get to be in charge for that long if you're not up to the job. If he wants examples of female warriors, how about Boudicca?

Have you pointed out that you're a "girl"? sometimes that can really make a difference...

If he's really into history then www.biographyonline.net/people/women-who-changed-world.html this is a good start. It even includes Joan of Arc...

If he's just started school, it's only going to get worse though so you do need to jump on it - DS1 has never had any thoughts about which sex was better or worse until he'd been at school for a while! And now it's all "Pink is yuk, girls are rubbish at xyz, etc. etc." I honestly don't know how, in this day and age, this bollocks is still propounded - it seems to seep through them all by osmosis! So upsetting.

Your DS doesn't have to understand that you are educated and professional, he doesn't have to understand that you are capable of more, he has to be shown that what you do is valued and worthy of respect, which it is.

It's good that you are getting your own room in the house.

Being a bit of an amateur psychologist and probably completely talking out of my arse…

Maybe your DS is (albeit subconsciously) aware that things have been difficult at home and that without you things would have fallen apart a bit, so all this interest in 'strong' men is a reaction to feeling a bit insecure?

www.amightygirl.com/books/history-biography Here are some books about various amazing girls and women through history; if he likes history and reading, you might be able to get some to read with him.

(As an aside, I love that they have an Amelia Earhart costume for a toddler on their homepage! Brilliant. Wish I had a girl just so I could buy it!)

I agree with TheSameBoat - it sounds like he needs some context on understanding why so few women were in the army and leading countries e.g. primogeniture, women being were banned from enlisting in the military etc. Obviously at 5, he will have limited understanding of issues around gender and sexuality so no need to blow his mind but some context would surely help him.

If you want some inspiring stories about strong women leaders in history, take a look on this website. It's s specialist small publishing company that focuses on history books with a feminist twist, highlighting 'real' princesses from history and powerful women. leaders. I met the owner of the company and she is great, really inspirational!

To be honest I don't think giving him examples will help. I think the answer lies closer to home. You need to address the issues that are causing his prejudice.