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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Reeva Steenkamp, Domestic Violence and Injustice

99 replies

CKDexterHaven · 12/09/2014 13:23

Between the internet and television I have been able to watch every second of this trial. Some might call this ghoulish or murder as entertainment but for me it was a rare opportunity to actually see how the system deals with male violence against women. The headlines constantly tell us that justice works for violent men and fails their female victims and here was a chance to see if this was true and see how it works in action.

I was actually pleasantly surprised, from a feminist viewpoint, about the trial. Judge Masipa was rumoured to be an advocate for women and tough on male violence. She and her assessors looked like everyday human beings, rather than the pillars of the establishment we see on the benches of this country. I was also pleasantly surprised by the effort the State made in fighting for Reeva Steenkamp and tearing down the ridiculous story about an intruder. Despite generous bail conditions, that I suspect would never be granted to a poor or black man, Oscar Pistorius, a wealthy, well-connected sporting hero was not treated with kid gloves by the trial proceedings.

From the initial cynicism that Pistorius was too rich to jail, most watching the trial felt that Reeva Steenkamp, at least, was going to receive some kind of justice. She was locked in a tiny, enclosed space, bullets designed to cause maximum injury shattered her pelvis, 'amputated' her arm and blew her brains out, neighbours heard her screams, neighbours called security, one kind neighbour rushed round to see if he could help save her; surely her dead body was enough to make her be believed? Pistorius, on the other hand, was a poor witness, caught out in endless untruths and contradictions. The ballistics, forensics, ear-witness testimony and Reeva's own words about his controlling behaviour and bad temper stood against his ludicrous story.

However, Judge Masipa has found Pistorius guilty only of culpable homicide and one other charge of firing a gun in a public place. I, and most legal experts commenting on the case, am completely bewildered and disappointed in this decision. Masipa swept away virtually all of the evidence as 'circumstantial' and, therefore, unreliable. Pistorius was called unreliable and untruthful and, yet, her findings were based almost entirely on believing his word. A rich, white, good-looking, sporting hero from a well-connected family was given the benefit of the doubt and his version was allowed to stand. Reeva had a whole body of evidence swept aside as 'open to interpretation', whereas one man's word was enough to reach a verdict in his favour. If this is the test then women will never receive justice.

Is this what domestic violence murders down to? If there is nobody to see a woman being murdered then it never happened? A murder happens behind closed doors, there are no witnesses, the murderer lives to spin a tale and the victim has no voice at all? People criticise women for not reporting rapes and domestic violence but what is the point if even your dead body isn't enough to prove you are truthful and all the man standing over it holding a gun only has to say 'I didn't mean to do it' to be believed? Now that I've seen a domestic violence case in action I can't believe how grim and depressing I find the whole situation.

OP posts:
CKDexterHaven · 12/09/2014 18:35

My feelings on this verdict are not based on gut instincts and emotions but on actually having seen all the trial and the evidence presented. Had I been a juror on the case I would have argued for a totally different outcome based on the facts before me. I don't believe you need to be a legal expert to interpret the evidence and apply the law to it. I'm not going to go into all the details here but the judge basically decided to go with the word of a man she called 'untruthful' and said things like 'he didn't conduct himself like a murderer' Hmm, while sweeping aside and not even considering all the evidence that spoke for the victim. When Judge Masipa says things like the defendant didn't conduct himself like a murderer it makes me believe the system works in favour of rich, white men.

OP posts:
gincamparidryvermouth · 12/09/2014 18:36

Which bit was a quote? I'm not seeing any formatting?

CKDexterHaven · 12/09/2014 18:40

Reasonable doubt seems to apply when dealing with a male murderer. Any doubt is the standard applied to a female victim.

There was enough evidence to find him guilty of murder. The judge decided to trust his version instead, even though he was 'unreliable' and 'untruthful'.

OP posts:
Curwen · 12/09/2014 18:41

CKDH said this at 1525 'Sadly even women judges ....seem conditioned to see men more sympathetically and to give more weight to their words.'

I quoted this at 1630, again in quotation marks and italics. I'll accept that my method of quotation is not up to published academic standards, but this method normally suffices on MN.

thedancingbear · 12/09/2014 18:46

I do have some legal expertise, albeit not of the South African system (and for the sake of full disclosure, I am male). I know enough about the case and the law in question to know that the judge's decision on the key point as to whether it was murder or 'just' culpable homicide/manslaughter is very iffy.

In fairness I don't think there is enough evidence to say that the surprising decision is a result of middle-class white patriarchal conspiracy. But it does smell funny, definitely. Particularly, whilst the decision will nominally be that of the judge alone, for a case this high-profile I believe she will have had help from other lawyers behind the scenes. I therefore struggle to believe that any 'error' is a true accident.

the interesting think now is whether the prosecution will appeal. I gather an appeal is only possible based on an error of law (ie the judge has properly fucked up) and if this is suspected then it's almost incumbent on the prosecution to do this. If there is no appeal, then in my view that will absolutely stink of collusion behind the scenes.

gincamparidryvermouth · 12/09/2014 18:51

So you didn't quote her in the post I was referring to then?

gincamparidryvermouth · 12/09/2014 18:52

If there is no appeal, then in my view that will absolutely stink of collusion behind the scenes

Collusion between which parties?

Curwen · 12/09/2014 18:54

I quoted her and then discussed the issue she had raised. Which is why I am not telling anyone what they are talking about. Which was your point. I am talking about the issue that CKDH is talking about. A discussion, if you will.

PetulaGordino · 12/09/2014 18:58

collusion behind the scenes would very much suggest "middle-class white patriarchal conspiracy"

gincamparidryvermouth · 12/09/2014 19:03

I agree there is a legal debate to be had. But that is not what the this discussion was about

The discussion up to the point that you said that had been about several different things, as far as I can tell? By "this discussion," do you mean "OP's posts"?

CaptChaos · 12/09/2014 19:13

Well, to quote a SA lawyer friend.

If he wasn't OP he wouldn't have got away with murder.

However, I'm sure Curwen knows more about it than her so......

Anyhow, he has also been acquitted of other crimes which he was bloody obviously guilty of, such as the ones relating to the ammunition, but I'm sure it's the lack of evidence there as well, not that he's a rich white man at all. Oh, except, he admits he shot her using the ammunition he's been acquitted for. Curiouser and curiouser.

The only other point to make is, if you don't want to discuss this from a feminist point of view, then might I suggest that you go and post on any one of the number of threads on the subject elsewhere on the forum, and let those of is who do want to analyse things from that point of view to do so in peace.

thedancingbear · 12/09/2014 19:29

gincamparidryvermouth - I mean collusion at least between the prosecution and the state.

petulagordino - that's exactly what I'm driving at, yes. Against the background of all the other social inequalities in South Africa, I wouldn't assume that it was entirely or even predominantly a gender-bias thing. but I think it would be in the mix.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 12/09/2014 19:40

curwen, I'm confused. You're not a black, South African woman judge. Most of us on here have more awareness of at least one of those categories than you do.

And yet, you think you're the only one qualified to define the parameters of the thread?

Why?

If you think it's impossible to comment without being the judge or someone very like her, or without having legal knowledge, fine - don't comment. But don't insist everyone must see things your way.

PetulaGordino · 12/09/2014 19:48

dancingbear - i think we're agreeing, but to be clear no one here has said it's exclusively gender-biased. we're all aware of the inequalities men of colour face in the justice system, and most of the posts here have mentioned OP's race as a factor in his favour. the crime is very much a gendered one though

scallopsrgreat · 12/09/2014 20:00

This is a really good piece by Sarah Ditum in the New Statesman. "His fears count, hers are dismissed."

LRDtheFeministDragon · 12/09/2014 20:11

This one by Glosswitch is good too - and clearly points out how men assume the role of 'objective' commentators while women's stories are seen as inherently unreliable.

glosswatch.com/2014/09/11/reeva-steenkamp-and-oscar-pistorius-not-a-question-of-fact-but-perspective/

PetulaGordino · 12/09/2014 20:11

i was literally about to post that one LRD!

LRDtheFeministDragon · 12/09/2014 20:12

It's brilliant, isn't it? She's so good.

Ilovenicesoap · 12/09/2014 20:13

Hmm I think the judge has played a clever game.
If OP had been convicted of murder I have no doubt he would have been cleared on appeal.
He would walk free.
She knows the evidence that would convict him of premeditated murder is tenous but convicting him of negligible homicide -there is no doubt and very little chance he would get off on appeal.
So its not evidence that convicted him but lack of evidence that he murdered her.
It doesnt mean he didnt.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 12/09/2014 20:17

I don't think it should be a 'game' though (I know you are only using the term colloquially).

And I think it's not so much that the evidence is tenuous - it's that her reasons for dismissing parts of it do not make very good sense to non-lawyers (or indeed to some lawyers it seems!), so this risks perpetuating the idea that we can trust what men say, and not what women say.

scallopsrgreat · 12/09/2014 20:17

Haven't read glosswitch's yet. Saving it for later Smile.

PetulaGordino · 12/09/2014 20:18

that's a really interesting viewpoint ilovenicesoap

sentencing may shed more light on that?

gincamparidryvermouth · 12/09/2014 20:20

I do wonder how the families of other thousands and thousands and thousands of South African women murdered by their male partners must be feeling about this - how they felt about the whole spectacle of the trial, in fact.

scallopsrgreat · 12/09/2014 20:24

In that Sarah Ditum article it states that a woman is killed as a result of DV every 8 hrs. So that's three a day and over a thousand a year.

I can't imagine how they feel either gin. Because they will have recognised in OP what they saw in their own daughter/mother/sister/aunt's partner. Definitely.

CKDexterHaven · 12/09/2014 20:32

The ear-witnesses contradicted each other, heard more shots than there were, heard screaming when Reeva couldn't possibly have. How does the judge decide which one to believe?

Why would a man rush round to a house to help a woman whom he'd just heard being shot if he hadn't heard a woman being shot? Masipa believed he'd been influenced by the media, even though he'd taken action on the night. Funnily enough she didn't think he was mistaken when he testified about Oscar crying and praying to god. That bit fitted in with the halo effect and playing a significant part of her summing up in Oscar's favour.

OP posts: