Scottish Referendum - Any Feminist Thoughts?

[CKDexterHaven]

I've been on some of the Indyref Mumsnet threads and the general vibe seems to be firmly in the 'No' camp (and pretty right-wing in some of its reasoning to me). However, on the news today they are claiming that women are fuelling the last-minute swing towards a 'Yes' vote. Does anyone have any thoughts about feminism and the referendum? I can't help thinking that an independent Scotland will have more female MPs and more left-leaning policies towards education, the NHS and wealth-distribution and, thereby, be better for women than Westminster. Is it just the trend for women to vote for more caring, people-driven, socially responsible policies that is driving women to vote 'Yes'? A lot of the political punditry I have seen on the issue up till now has suggested that women are more risk-averse than men and I think it would be very interesting if this were proved to be untrue.

I am in Scotland. I think if there's a movement by women towards Yes, it's partly down to Cat Boyd, her book, and the RIC. It's also partly down to Lesley Riddoch and her book, Blossom. It's got a lot to do with the hard work being carried out by Women for Independence, who set up stalls and cafes, go doorknocking and canvassing, and set up women-friendly debates the length and breadth of the country. If you don't identify as feminist, there will be some other relevant group willing to engage you in discussion, either a Yes "enter your town/geopolitical area", or an ethnic group (I've heard of English Scots, Asians, Africans and Poles for Yes, I'm certain there will be others.)

The strength of the Yes campaign is in its grassroots diversity; it's people talking to each other at bus stops, in the pub, at the school gate, at the office water cooler. I think women (and men, too) are simply more engaged in politics than I've ever seen before.

X post there.

We've only had a few devolved powers for a short time but we already recognise pornography and prostitution as violence against women - makes campaigning a lot easier than in england and wales ime.
We've been looking at rape prosecution since our practices were impacted by the Cadder ruling but already juries are informed of rape myths during trials.
Lesley Riddoch and others are definitely advocating for a Nordic model - the Common Weal's the group who'd probably have most information on that, besides Blossom.
I've been really pleased with how things have gone since devolution but it's hard when so many laws like immigration (women on spousal visas having no recourse to public funds) aren't within our control.
But the atmosphere in the Scottish parliament is so much more women-friendly. We have a free creche so you can see your MSP. And it's brilliant - not a grey room with a box of dirty duplo. A proper fancy creche.

I am confused. It is being reported here that the mumsnet poll was taken after the mumsnet debate, but unless I have missed a poll (I may well have!) then the results in the article were pre debate. I wouldn't be surprised if another poll on mn would show a no swing.

Either way, it seems that the mn poll is responsible for a lot of reporting showing women's views swinging to yes. And maybe not entirely accurately.

[http://www.scottishwomensaid.org.uk/news-events/news/no-one-should-have-choose-between-their-vote-and-their-safety]] This shouldn't be necessary because no woman should live in fear but sadly it is. This campaign was useful as it enabled folk chapping on doors to explain that in some cases people can register to vote anonymously.
One thing that came up in a recent discussion, though, was that some women were scared of debt catching up with them from wonga or brighthouse - unfortunately that's not covered by the legislation.

lots of interesting links, thanks. like CKD i too would hope that a scandinavian approach would be the way forward in independence

when i say it's nothing to do with us, i don't mean that it's not interesting to me, just that there's no reason why women and feminists in scotland would want to put their energies into engaging in discussions with people outside the relevant area

i have seen women for independence events in my facebook feed as friends in scotland have signed up to them

The mumsnet poll was indeed taken pre-AS/AD webchat, but the results were only released after the debate.

I see what you mean, PG. I think it's a shame the way it's been reported though, as though it's all fistfights and willywaving. The last debate I was at ended in declarations of friendship and hand-holding between the female participants.

that's a heartwarming image Super, and you're right about the portrayal

I saw the poll results pre-debate.

Women have been so visible in this referendum. With Women for Independence leading, women have been engaging at every level. There have been hundreds (thousands?) of meetings and debates in town halls all over Scotland with women very well represented - including several all-women panels. Sadly, this has been very poorly reflected in the media, who like to portray it as Salmond vs Darling, and every pro-yes person as a Salmond groupy, ignoring the depth and breadth of the political discussions that have been going on. Women for Independence have been constantly frustrated by media like the BBC having all-male panels and claiming they couldn't find any suitable women when there were a whole load ready and willing to participate. But the on-the-ground local participation has made a massive difference to women in Scotland (and men). It's really not just about one stupid advert (though I'm sure that helped!). Women are very visible in Scottish politics. Of the four main parties, two have female leaders and one a female deputy. As was mentioned earlier, the Scottish parliament is very family-friendly, both for those working there and for those who want to visit their MPs, attend debates, etc. The excellent free crèche was set up specifically to encourage female participation in politics, and it seems to be working.

By the way, I don't think the reported female swing to yes is based on the MN poll! Most of the pollsters publish details about their results such as age, gender and political affiliation of those polled.

I also think it's a complete mis-representation to portray 'yes' as a heart vote and 'no' as a head vote. Most of the pro-yes debate has been very hard-headed, about what makes a functional and successful society in the 21st century, and how the UK, with it's 18th-century parliament, is failing at that. Yes, there is a lot of aspiration but most of the sentimentality seems to be on the 'no' side (see, for example, the 'I love Scotland' and 'I love my family' campaigns 'no' have been running, and this bizarre obsession they have with the flag).

The article I linked to cited mn as it's main source.

Agree re. No and sentimentality. Wittering on about our shared history, inventions etc. I understand it is an effort to be positive rather than keeping on a negative message but I find it patronising.

People I know in Scotland are split fairly evenly Yes/No (as you would expect given the polls). Almost every Scottish person I know who now lives abroad/in rUK wants us to vote No. I wonder if this is to do with sentimentality for the homeland, not wanting things to change while you are away etc.

I am going to vote Yes. I would prefer to stay a part of the UK, IF the UK was a fairer place that wasn't penalising the weakest. I hope with Independence we could do a better job, but I know it is a risk. That is how unhappy I am with the status quo that I am willing to take the risk!

What I find really heartening, whatever the result, is how many newly registered voters there are and how engaged lots of people seem to be. Westminster elections often feel like there is no point voting as there is no real choice, all as bad as each other, while politicians blame low turnout on us for beng apathetic, rather than looking at themselves.

tbh i think most of the rest of hte uk (including england, and including anywhere in london that isn't westminster) wishes it had the opporutnity to vote not to ruled from westminster!

I think that's a totally reasonable wish. The SNP were active for a few decades to set this referendum into motion and devolution really helped. Maybe England should go federal?