Foetus' right to life vs women's bodily autonomy

[AmberTheCat]

I've just been reading a paper written by a friend of a friend, arguing that a foetus should be seen as having the same right to life as a postpartum human, because there are no lines that can be drawn between a foetus and someone post-birth that couldn't also be drawn between two postpartum humans. He added a note to say that clearly there is a question of how this right to life relates to women's autonomy, but that this wasn't something he was addressing in this paper.

Given that this is surely THE question, can you help me refine my arguments for the primacy of bodily autonomy? My instinctive view is that I can't see any way of denying that a foetus is a human being, or at least has the potential to become a human being, depending on how developed it is, but that the decision of whether or not to allow that (potential) human to grow inside her must still always remain the woman's. I'm quite out of touch with the thinking around this, though, so would welcome pointers.

Thanks!

Nice one petula.

Unforortunately globally it is of course men who get to decide what women can and can't do with their bodies, and so he is simply forging ahead with what he sees as his god-given right (because let's face it it often stems from there) to tell a bunch of women what they must think and how they must feel and he wants the laws to reflect his POV and no-one elses.

Seven,

The proposition is clear but the implications derived from the statement by many here are spurious at best, I am a full human being ergo I can do what I like regardless of the impact on others. Not sound logically or philosophically.

Petulant,

Fundamentally, as a voter with an equal vote to yours, we have exactly equal say in the law.

Petulant

weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/apply-cold-water-to-the-burned-area.jpeg

You think that laws in the UK are formed by putting them out to referendum and going with the answer?

Erm, OK....

I also find it quite sickening that a man would say "as a voter I have an equal right to you, to say what happens to your body". Nice.

Petulant? Petulant? How fucking childish.

lildupin, you might not be aware,. but you can actually post your childish memes straight into the thread.

Yes, women who want some say over what happens to their bodies are being petulant. Obviously.

Are there any other situations which the men on this thread would like to make laws around what women may and may not do with their bodies I wonder. Around the world there are a host of things to choose from.

The petulant was my iphone. Did make me laugh, though. You, as a voter, have an equal right to laws concerning my body. That's how democracy works. Shrugs.

Have you just owned up to sock puppeting larry?

Oh dear.

And while you circle your feminist wagons, lets be realistic,most women don't want abortion on demand until birth. Because women care about foetuses.

I also find it quite sickening that a man would say "as a voter I have an equal right to you, to say what happens to your body". This and what Petula said at 12:16.

Men theorising and trying to dictate to women where their boundaries should lie is disgusting. The reason I haven't posted on this thread so far is because I suspect I might get banned. But in for a penny in for a pound. Men who want to control what women can do with their bodies are downright creepy. It makes me wonder what other boundaries that women have they would like to ignore/eradicate/step over.

No woman 'wants' an abortion full stop.

So whose going to report larry for sock pupppetry.

I've had the petulant one before tbh, it's not new

If most women choose to carry a foetus to term rather than have an abortion (if that is something they are considering for whatever reason) then that's fine. Their body, their choice, none of my business. It's the ones who want the abortion who should have the right to choose that.

I've had rocks thrown at me before by stupid children, doesn't make it ok, Petula.

No, I just meant the joke wasn't new

bless them... they aren't even original in their childishness.

lildupin, you might not be aware,. but you can actually post your childish memes straight into the thread

I was being rude to larry - sorry. "Adapting" a poster's name to something insulting is the most barrel-scraping tactic in internet argument. So, so fucking weak and just unbearably cringey.

I've only ever seen "apply cold water to burned area" used in the context of mocking the person who's tried to be all sassy and harsh and that's how I was using it here - sorry for the misunderstanding!

Ah ok lildupin, I thought I was the one who was supposed to have been burned. Gotcha now, no worries

Ah, really sorry lildupin. I completely took it the other way, and I apologise

Thanks guys. I'm so embarrassed - I'll think a bit harder next time before I post!

I think it's very telling that discussions like this tend to go a different way on mumsnet (support abortion to term, bodily autonomy is paramount etc) than they do in the RL/down the pub situations I've personally encountered (well, early abortions are ok I guess and convenient because I wasn't ready to be a parent but once you're showing why would you want to get rid how selfish it's only 9 months after all).
The difference being, of course, that the majority of people on mumsnet have been pregnant and experienced the violation of bodily autonomy that pregnancy brings first hand. We also tend to be female and so a significant minority of us have experienced rape, another extreme example of invasion of bodily autonomy.
It's very easy to be dismissive of bodily autonomy when you can take it for granted. Once you've experienced a difficult pregnancy - or any pg, I imagine, but I wouldn't know about 'easy' pgs - it becomes the crux of the matter and the right to life is put in it's place, namely a binary concept that has no bearing on any other persons right to be unmolested.
I just wish the difficulties and violations of pg were more readily discussed in RL, along with other 'women's issues' so that everyone could have a chance at approaching a discussion like this sensibly. If you don't know how terrible it can be because no one told you, a bit of naivety is understandable.