Constructing narratives to ignore women

[IdealistAndProudOfIt]

This is an older piece of writing but I've only just stumbled across it and wanted to share it.

aidanmoher.com/blog/featured-article/2013/05/we-have-always-fought-challenging-the-women-cattle-and-slaves-narrative-by-kameron-hurley/

It's about women being ignored generally as well as specifically fighters. Making me wish I'd gone further into history and could help to rewrite it as it was! Just off to look up the viking women fighters.

How often do we all fall into these traps every day?

It's not even about readership. You can have the readership and still be ignored. Norah Roberts, famously, has spent cumulatively over 16 years on the NYT Bestseller List and only ever had one review in the NYT. (Shoulda written as Norman. )

Yeah, go for it buffy.

It does occur to me, if we were one person we'd be one shit-hot academic (not that you're not one on your own, of course ...).

And thank you!

tana - yes, true! It is so shit that if women are not widely read/known ... well, of course it must be because they're bad. If they are ... well, it must be because they're populist and not doing High Art.

have spent the evening working backwards through blog posts. it has been most enjoyable!

LRD Have you read Ursula Le Guin's Lavinia? Virgil meets Lavinia and discovers he's got it wrong. Quite fun, really.

tana and LRD, absolutely, i put a comment on LRD's blog sort of to that effect. in terms of the women artists that amanda vickery was discussing, they weren't obscure or only recognised for their work after their death - they were renowned and sought after and patronised by important people and made a good living in many cases. ok, they weren't large in number compared to the men for the reasons we all know, but actually you don't have to look all that hard to find them. what is lacking of course, is the detail that we have about the lives and works of celebrated male artists, and the enduring value and teaching of their work

a little insight into vasari's coverage of women artists

I will try reading that book Lord. I teach The Aeneid so should be interesting.

LRD I have just looked at your blog and discovered where you did your degree. Do you still live there? I had a very happy life there for 13 years.

upto - ohhh, how have I not read that?! I need to read that asap. And jealous of kickass getting to teach the Aeneid with that parallel.

kickass, I'm not still in the place where I did my undergrad (which, judging by my slightly creepy big-brother style stats on academia.edu is where you are), but I visit often. It's a nice city.

petula - ooh, thanks for the link! See, this is fascinating isn't it? That even if women do well in their lifetimes, they still don't make it into the history books to the extent men do. At every single level, there's pressure to write women out of the narrative.

ooh have placed an order at the library for "lavinia", it sounds right up my street. i enjoyed "the penelopiad"

has anyone else read "the testament of mary" by colm tóibín?

Curse you, LRD. I had Stuff I was going to do this evening...

Sorry! pgrin]

I've not read Testament of Mary, petula - should I? I have a copy.

I liked Penelopiad, but struggled with it too.

LRD I live in the US and have done for nearly 6 years! Haha. Big Brother is not watching me very closely.

Oh, darn! I was really hoping it was you, because the other possibility is that someone has scoped me out pre-interview, and I am nervous!

Testament of Mary v interesting. Very much about how the men are telling the story they want to be heard

I keep hovering near the Testament of Mary but have not dared to read it because I'm scared it might be too ... something.... It might make me cry or make me angry ... >

it's not perfect, but it is thought-provoking. it is quite graphic in its description of the crucifixion

Wow, this blog is great, LRD. Really enjoying it!

Really fascinating thread, thank you. I asked DH what he knew about Ada Lovelace (he's a programmer by trade) and he mentioned the programming language but didn't know much else. He was amazed to find out that she is considered to be the first computer programmer. His response - WHY didn't I know that? - was pretty telling.

How do you follow blogs, btw? There are quite a few I would like to follow but I'm not sure the best way to go about it. Do I need to reactivate my Twitter account?

I learned to programme in Ada. But it was years before I knew about Ada Lovelace.

I love Ursula le Guin's books, she's one of my favourite writers, another being Mary Gentle. Lavinia isn't her best imo, but it's a good read. Funny how prolific ULG is but not really the best known of sci-fi authors I think. Or not, really, considering our subject. Definitely considered a male preserve, both for writers and readers, sf. Unfortunately she is now getting on quite a bit.

I must offer a small excuse on behalf of computer programmers: history of their profession is not considered very important either. My dh is an IT man and complains frequently that they're forever reinventing the wheel. Dh is interested in recent history too and is well aware of ada lovelace, he wanted to call our dd after her (I'm afraid I had other ideas).

Wow I'm glad I started this thread! Got loads to read now. Your blog is fascinating, LRD, and I've just dug out your link to Joanne Bailey's too.

I have been interested in reading about medieval history for years, yet despite having come across the idea that women may have had higher value than we think back then I am always surprised by it. One of those non-scaly llamas.

Caroline Hershal is my 'top ignored woman in science'. Funnily enough her brother is incredibly famous... 'The Age of Wonder' is quite good about her.