British Airways - lipstick

[foolishpeach]

I just caught up on last week's A Very British Airline, and I am really that Jodie was kicked off the training course for not reapplying her lipstick often enough.

The stupid prat who fired her didn't seem to be wearing any lipstick and neither did any of the male recruits.

It is just another example of standards being different and more onerous for women.

ThinkIveBeenHacked I disagree about the blonde, I know a brunette who has just been hired by emirates first time round, but she is stunning. I was shocked by their make up policy though, in the contract they state that they expect a minimum of clear nail polish, foundation blusher mascara and lipstick. A minimum lol! And there are rules for how you dress in the training facility as well, but I suppose they pay you a good salary and pay for all your living costs so I think they're entitled to lay down the law. I also think well groomed (inc makeup) cabin crew looks much more professional.

Hey ! Don't shoot the messenger ! I'm only passing on the info I've heard!;)

People pay more attention to lipstick? Never mind Barack Obama, shouldn't the police and armed forces be told?

Not to mention MPs, merrymouse, aren't they supposed to be authority figures. Also judges and doctors. Adam Ant was way ahead of his time.

Do female stewards get free make up or a higher salary than male?

And is conditions were relaxed on, say BA, to allow make up free female stewards, would people (men) choose other airlines on that basis? Cos that's what the inference is. Pretty dim view of men, if that's what the airlines think.

Stewards are there for safety. That they have other jobs to do is just business.

So if your GP didn't have make up on would you really think she wasn't professional? Or is it just reallly that people see these women as eye candy?

I think it comes with the territory to be honest. It's marketed as a very glamorous job (although it's really not) and that is the image the companies want to portray. I'm not offended by their polices.

IIRC there was an American court case about a decade ago where requiring makeup and "pretty" plane crew was deemed not allowed, resulting in lots of middle-aged crew with no makeup. I remember flying via Europe to the US and it was a stunning contrast, but I dont know if other US airlines followed suit or what they do now as haven't been to America in years.

NotCitrus I think you're right there, USAirways has amazing air crew, a lot of whom are older and less model like than some British operators. At least on their Philadelphia and Ft Lauderdale runs.

Is there a job where superficial (but with great lengths taken to justify why not), expensive and time - consuming requirements are made for male workers and not females doing the same role?

My memory of an incident with a woman working for an American airline was that a woman was threatened with being fired for not obeying the appearance rules, which said "Female employees must wear tasteful makeup". Then after it went public, the airline said that the rules were written by a committee which included management and low-level employees, and the intention was to prevent workers from presenting a bizarre appearance, and nobody had imagined (crazy idea!) that a woman might go to work with no makeup at all, and if someone wanted to go without, it would be fine and they'd change the rules to allow it. But I have the memory that the employee quit anyway.

As for Virgin Airlines, you can't look for much feminist cheer from an operation that uses a logo like this:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/Fatmonkey/Budget%20Airlines/Virgin%20Atlantic/Virgin2.jpg

I enjoyed the programme, but as always we don't know what went on behind the scenes. From the scenes shown, Jodi was not sufficiently mature and organised for the job - she was late, she left bits of uniform behind, etc. The lipstick thing was just the last straw. If you want to do this job, you have to be prepared to meet their admittedly daft standards.

there's a BA video on one of the links, the women in it have huge clownish red mouths and look ridiculous - but that is the policy. No-one actually cares except the top brass; and no-one is forced to do the job. I have never understood why anyone would want to be cabin crew anyway - looks an awful job.

No customer cares about uniform; I've done a tourism job and I know what the customers care about.

BTW if you want real horror, look up Singapore Airlines' prospective cabin crew forums. SA won't take anyone with visible scars or imperfections, and they actually check skin.

This was policy for holiday reps when I worked for First Choice many moons ago too, they had a list of particular brands and shades of lipstick that were accepted and stated that you should wear foundation (in 30 degree heat) and heels of a certain height despite having to walk all over town between hotels and spend ages standing around at airports.

I can see the point of being visible from afar, but their gaudy floral printed uniforms made sure of that, without needing a ton of slap. The men's uniforms were just a light blue shirt and beige trousers so they looked like any other vaguely smart man at the airport, with only a clipboard to distinguish them.

My flat mate saw me come out of my bedroom one morning and looked shocked, she actually didn't recognise me without my bright pink lipstick on as she was so used to me being fully made up.

I didn't see this programme, but it is depressingly unsurprising to hear that it's still a thing.

Did everyone see last night's episode. Every one of the new cadets or trainee pilots was a man. Not a woman in sight. When will things change? when companies like ba are forced to accept 50 percent of their new pilot applications from women. Make it mandatory and be done with it.

Men do. Women adorn.

That's what it is all about really.

"when companies like ba are forced to accept 50 percent of their new pilot applications from women"

What a daft idea.

BA positively encourage applications from women and have more female pilots than any other UK carrier apparently. They are just not getting the applicants, so can't just give out posts to any woman who applies regardless of suitability.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/11/21/british-airways-training-scheme-women_n_4310417.html

Why do you think women wouldn't be suitable DinoSores?

and why are they not getting the applicants? Because they foster an atmosphere which is hostile to women...perhaps?

Best uniform for CC-

Spotlessly clean and tidy
Short nails
Hair tied back, very neat
Trousers
Flat 'sensible' comfortable shoes
Not overweight (controversial!)

While I don't think Jodie was kicked off the course simply for the makeup thing, BA (and the airline industry in general, as I have no doubt it's the same at many carriers) came off pretty badly in terms of its blatant institutionalised sexism.

The worrying thing is that BA probably thought this documentary was great in terms of showing their "high standards" of service.

But seeing a group of male trainees doing really tough simulator training vs the mainly female cabin crew trainees being berated about makeup - utterly grim and appalling.

It's actually made me think twice about whether there's a better airline I could fly with when I do a long-haul trip this summer - one that treats its female cabin crew with a bit of respect and doesn't impose these time-consuming grooming standards on them. Maybe a US based carrier?

positive discrimination is as bad as any other kind. I've been on the receiving end and it is INCREDIBLY patronising.

apparently BA have 200 female pilots out of 3500, which is high for the industry. It's not the hours etc, because (as mentioned in the programme I think) they are the same as for cabin crew where there are plenty of females.

nothing stopping anyone who wants to do it and has the skills from applying. So stop using the word 'geek', encourage science and maths and this kind of job opens up.

no, I'm not a pilot!