Is woo belief more prevalent among women?

[CrotchMaven]

Ya know, faeries, ghosts, feathers and inner essence, soul stuff.

And, if so, is that a STEM problem?

And are woo-men (hahaha) more interested in in hard-core conspiracy theory, libertarianism rocks, government is evil, battle of the cocks stuff?

Or have I been reading too much weird stuff on the net, extrapolating and should go to bed?

And whither, witches. I love witches threads. Am I being witch - finder on woo-ers, of whatever genitalia/born-chromosome configuration?

Agree with Cote and Tondeleyo.
I wonder if sometimes it could be a power/control thing? I remember the time in my life when I was most "woo" was in my early teens - the same age at which I felt the most disempowered and confused. I was rational and cynical yet there was a part of me that was desperate for witchcraft/supernaturalness to be true. (I always knew, rationally, that it wasn't though )

lrd I've seen some things before about how during the rise of medcalising births, the doctors were trying to sell midwifery as basically witch craft... posters and things which were both sexist and racist if I remember correctly.

I think it might be one of those situations where it would be legitimate to "claim it back"

This is more specific to the states obviously but becoming more relevant in the UK

squishy how old are you?

Just because I think teenagers in the 90s early 2000s were very woo orientated. Sabrina the Teenage Witch/Charmed/Buffy/The Craft all that sort of thing

LRD, why do you think that is? Do you think there is a reason for it in the context of different societies?

It seems to me that seeing the BVM is about a personal relationship with a deity (and obviously there are lots of other ones like shamanic visions and revelations and I suppose alien abduction). Why are they sometimes more associated with women and other times with men?

OP, I think this is a really interesting topic that I'd not thought much about before.

Mmm. I'm fine with 'claiming back' - or just claiming - actual knowledge. That's why I included midwifery as an example of something that has a genuine history of being better-known by women. But not everything that's claimed is like that.

(Male) doctors have at various times claimed that midwifery is 1) witchcraft/nonsense practised by uneducated women or 2) terribly important knowledge to be studied by men. But we can all agree there is a genuine body of knowledge there, and that most of the time, it has been female-dominated knowledge.

When people start telling me that they're into herbal healing because they draw on the knowledge of centuries of wise women, I think we're on shakier ground. There are herbal remedies that work, but for much of history, they were seen as serious medicine and studied by men. Women taking up the tail-ends of those herbal remedies (the ones that haven't become non-alternative medicine) and seeing themselves as proud preservers of a feminine tradition, is a crock.

You're spot on with me, RFFU, I turned 13 in 1994 and I spent loads of time looking up Wicca in the library. Not to mention books on aliens, bigfoot, anything supernatural. And the reasons were definitely the same as squishys.

I'm a lazy atheist sahm too btw.

almond - I don't know the reason. I'd like to think there isn't one, because it would fit with my sense that gender is entirely socially constructed.

Just thinking about societies, I know of people in very patriarchial, evangelical Christian or Christian-type sects, where it's definitely quite normal for men to have visions or get very emotional about their personal closeness to God. I suspect maybe it's because those cultures are relatively lacking in ways for men to express emotion otherwise - I'm really only speculating from the little I know. But I guess if you live in the sort of culture where men are seen as the rule-makers and aren't even encouraged to be that caring towards their children, maybe getting terribly emotional about God is a nice, safe, masculine channel for emotion?

LRD, I did mean a reason stemming from socially constructs, as in changes with the social roles of men and women at different times.

Oh sorry, I was kind of agreeing with you LRD although looking at it, I didn't actually phrase it that way

terraria I spent loads of time at the library too, using the crap dial up internet to look at spells online.... from the weird and wonderful and really crap websites that were on offer in the mid 90s

We weren't cool were we?

Oh, sorry. I am really not running on 100% this morning.

I think there would be reasons in specific societies. In terms of the history of Western Christianity, we move from an idea of God as relatively distant (which is still the image in the Eastern Church), then people start getting into the idea of Jesus's humanity, and wanting to relate to that. I think as that becomes more normal, being more into the emotional/spiritual kind of expression of faith becomes more acceptable to men, too. It's not seen as 'extreme' or niche, therefore it's not left for women to do.

But I think this is a circular argument really. I must go away and think properly (which I'm unlikely to do because this thread is too interesting! ).

really - no, it's me. As I say, not running on 100%.

Really: Mid twenties, so yes I grew up watching Sabrina, Buffy etc! I am sure that this definately had an impact.

The people I know into woo are blokes who are into ghost hunting. Though I did share a house with a girl who would go for card readings every now and then.

Given how much babies change over their first year, I'm prepared to believe that that can have an effect on you - if you get a lot of warmth and sunlight or if your first 6 months are in the depths of a grey, damp winter or whatever, but I don't know how you'd prove that at all, because there are so many other factors which will affect people as they grow. And even if there is anything in that, it's bog all to do with the sort of astrology you see in the media.

I don't think of herbalism as woo, either - there's quite a bit of pharma money in researching plant properties, and it's important to know that some plants can kill you, as well a knowing others are safe to eat. I suppose though that if it's stuff like taking mistletoe with a golden sickle at new moon, then that is woo. (Or an Asterix plot...)

Could it be that women in general are a bit more feeling, intuitive and deep thinking than men? Bit more able to feel emotions than men? Is that biological do you think as we are in the main, the ones who raise our young and we need to have that? After all until recently 'real men' don't cry was common thinking.

I also agree that women may be more prone to this after experiencing adversity in life. I know I have. I could choose to believe that life is dark,full of suffering, an endurance basically but I prefer to think that magic and miracles might just exist which makes life that bit brighter.

Mind you as a DC, I was massively into fairies, angels and magic and that has never left me really. Perhaps it's all down to imagination. Some people have one, some don't.

As an atheist, the biggest 'woo' belief to my mind is that of God (any god) though. It is a mainstream belief that has been perpetuated through the ages and is acceptable even though there is absolutely no evidence of it's existence similarly to fairies. I prefer to believe in fairies flying butterfly chariots myself .

Watching 'Maleficent' recently, I was in my element!

I really find that hard to believe, wondering. We might be socialised to see ourselves that way, but it's only socialisation.

There are plenty of societies (past and present) where there's no stigma about men crying, so men cry.

I know quite a few women who believe in some form of woo quite quietly and secretly. My sister truly believes that her old house has a ghost, so do both my aunts. One aunt is very into natural medicines and she believes in fairies and angels even though she is a Pagan and the angels she believes in are from the Christian tradition. My other aunt believes in spiritual healing and goes along to all sorts of spiritualist meetings. She used to be the biggest sceptic I knew, but when her husband left her after 25 years of marriage she suddenly became very into woo of all kinds, as a way of coping with the shittiness of having her planned future ripped out from under her.

I was a teenager in the 90s too and grew up watching Sabrina, Buffy, etc. and yes I was a bit woo as a teenager. I had my palm read by a 'proper' palm reader, and had my cards done. Rationally I know that it's all done by reading my body language and other tricks, as well as the fact that I only remember the bits that have come true, but even now I sometimes find myself remembering bits of the palm reading and wondering how he knew that (he didn't - I assume he guessed based on probabilities)

I do think woo is a way of coping with difficult things, so it makes sense that women are more into the caring side of woo, because they have more difficult things to deal with than men. I know the times I've been more tempted to believe in woo have been when I've been having big problems and needed to feel like there was something I could do to be in control of them.

Quite what has being a sahm got to do with views on being woo?

How fucking rude are you?! And in the feminism section?!?!

WA, but it isn't all down to imagination is it? I would consider myself to be imaginative, but that doesn't mean I can't distinguish between fantasy and reality or understand rational explanations.

If anything, believing in homeopathy is a failure in imagination, because people who believe in such things don't understand the rather abstract concepts required for molecular biology and similar, which (if you have done some science at school) is largely a failure to imagine and picture in your head what molecules, atoms etc are doing.

This is possibly tangential, but it's really interesting you put it that way, in terms of imagination, almond, because it makes perfect sense to me, yet I don't think anyone ever suggested science was 'imaginative' to me when I was at school.

I think its true of all religion/superstition though that you are most susceptible when life is shit.

Herbal therapies and homeopathy are different though aren't they

Absolutely.

Though some herbal stuff edges over into similarly nonsense territory, doesn't it?

I guess someone who believes they're a witch because they brew sage tea is marginally more rational than someone who believes they can cure themselves with water-with-a-memory, but it's a close run thing. I get more angry with homeopathy because more people are tricked into believing it.

I think you have a point about the STEM issue.. IME the woo/non-woo divide matches the STEM/non-STEM divide. I'd never thought about how that then skews the gender divide though. very interesting!
I am including religion in the definition of woo here as well.