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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Justifying long term SAHM to DDs?

967 replies

whenwilltherebegoodnews · 19/05/2014 13:35

I have a few friends who, because their DHs are high (6 figure) earners, are able to be SAHMs, and have no intention of ever returning to work. These women are all at least degree educated and previously had successful careers.

I just wonder, in such a situation, how a long term SAHM encourages her DD to realise her academic/career potential, if the example she sets is that her education is only a short term requirement until she meets a high earning man?

I'm not trying to start a bun fight, I'm genuinely interested. My own mother is university educated, and has always worked in some capacity, successfully managing her own businesses with being the main carer, and encouraged me to be financially independent.

Personally, I feel I have invested too many years, and too much money, in my education and career to give it up forever after only 10-15 years. I like to think I am setting a good example to my DD that career and family are not mutually exclusive.

So how does a long term SAHM reconcile this? Am I thinking too simplistically?

OP posts:
HercShipwright · 20/05/2014 13:56

You used the term in loco parentis wrongly.

handcream · 20/05/2014 13:58

Was going to bring up the pseudo comment myself!

MexicanSpringtime · 20/05/2014 14:03

Well first of all, there is never any guarantee that a current lifestyle is for ever. Nothing like being having no work skills when you husband dies or leaves you with small children, and I have seen too many people in that position.

Secondly, education has so many uses, not just for joining the workforce.

Thirdly, a mother has to make intelligent and informed decisions about their children's health and education, among other things.

Fourthly, I personally was not a SAHM, but I think that the care and education of children is the most important job in the world and just because a capital male-orientated society does not value this job, as a feminist I cannot fall into the same mind-set.

Ubik1 · 20/05/2014 14:04

yes capsium

I've a friend who pays £75/day for 1:1 care for her autistic child in the school holidays. This is just beyond so many parents.

Retropear · 20/05/2014 14:05

Really Handcream. In a thread of under 300 posts mostly given to sahm bashing and demanding a need for them to justify their existence that is the comment you choose to point out.

You've made some of the choice derogatory sweeping generalisation comments yourself- as you always sweep in to do on these threads.

handcream · 20/05/2014 14:18

Davinci is right, you have more to contribute when you are both working as opposed to really not understanding what pressures your partner is under.

capsium · 20/05/2014 14:26

Handcream What would you do if you suddenly were faced with caring for a child / elderly parent with SNs? One for whom the required was at a high level and expensive?

I expect you would just do the best you could, like all of us. I don't expect you would welcome having to justify your self to a stranger with no involvement or reason to be involved in your life.

Your work would probably not give you a great deal of advantage, save allowing you to accumulate some money, since the process of finding and securing adequate care can be lengthy and time consuming.

Many SAHPs are so because of these sort of circumstances, don't add to their burdens by saying that they contribute to society less.

capsium · 20/05/2014 14:26

Handcream What would you do if you suddenly were faced with caring for a child / elderly parent with SNs? One for whom the required was at a high level and expensive?

I expect you would just do the best you could, like all of us. I don't expect you would welcome having to justify your self to a stranger with no involvement or reason to be involved in your life.

Your work would probably not give you a great deal of advantage, save allowing you to accumulate some money, since the process of finding and securing adequate care can be lengthy and time consuming.

Many SAHPs are so because of these sort of circumstances, don't add to their burdens by saying that they contribute to society less.

morethanpotatoprints · 20/05/2014 14:31

We don't have any pressure but if there was I would totally understand, you don't have to have a job to be able to understand.
There are no power struggles here and haven't been in 22 years of being a sahm. It has never stopped me having a voice or feeling equal to dh in every sense.
He in turn has never felt like he's missed out on parenting and running the home as this is at least equal most of the time.
Sometimes he does more domestics than I do and more parenting, other times the roles are reversed.
It works for us, because we make sure we put ourselves in the position for it to work, its all part of being a team and whether you who or not has no relevance.

capsium · 20/05/2014 14:35

The fact that there are still a few SAHPs around allowed me to feel relatively normal, especially when my DC was small.

Otherwise we would have 'stuck out', even more. It was bad enough being practically required to volunteer for everything going at the school, because it was OK as I didn't work, The same school who did not seem to unconcerned in acknowledging any progression at one point (retaining funds?), the progression that I felt was vital for my DC to achieve their full potential and contribute back to society.

As it was, I could be a SAHP and concentrate on supporting my DC through the SEN and there has been a huge marked positive progression.

Retropear · 20/05/2014 14:37

I most certainly do understand and do my best to ease it thus "contributing".

Ubik1 · 20/05/2014 14:40

In the end I hope I could say to my daughter - look at the subsidised childcare you have for your child and aren't you fortunate to have the opportunity for you and your partner to work flexibly/compressed hours/part time so that family life can be organised around a desire to work (or not)productively and have a reasonable income to keep you all financially secure.

I don't think I will be able to say that though because the debate always descends into rhetoric which is basically oneupmanship and is never about the practical realities of helping women achieve a happy family life.

Why aren't feminists campaigning about this?

almondcakes · 20/05/2014 14:46

Feminists have been campaigning around this for the last fifty years at least.

I'm pretty annoyed with the OP (whom I have never seen post on this board before), start up a really sexist thread bashing SAHMs on a feminist board, phrasing it in such a way that suggests she thinks feminists will agree with her issues with SAHMs.

Ubik1 · 20/05/2014 14:49

I think op can say what she likes

I've never seen any feminist protests or groups or anything - will have to look it up. It's all usually about sex and porn

DaVinciNight · 20/05/2014 14:51

But that's the thing. We should do the best to balance the needs of the family (eg a child with SN, a parent needing care), our personal need for growth and the financial needs of the family.

What I don't agree is when all the burden and so called meaningless and not valued jobs are left to women so they are the ones to automatically looking after the child with SN or the relative needing care.

And that's what I mean with having a strong argument. If you can explain why you are staying at home and not working then it won't have any ill effect on how our dcs will look at SAHM. If the only reason is 'that I can afford it as DH earns plenty and I like my idle life' then maybe not so much.

capsium · 20/05/2014 14:55

DaVinci I am very thankful to the ones who SAH just because they can afford it...it means people are able to make less assumptions about my own, private reasons, for choosing to SAH.

Not because I am ashamed, but because assumptions about my child, and their potential future, whilst they are still a child and not grown to their full potential, are certainly not welcome.

deepinthewoods · 20/05/2014 14:56

"idle life" that's a laugh. Childcare is hard work.

almondcakes · 20/05/2014 14:59

Ubik, OP can say what she likes and post where she likes, but it is still annoying.

You might want to start with the Fawcett society if you think feminism is usually all about sex and porn. They are probably the best known feminist campaigning group in the UK.

I think it is pretty well known that feminists were and are instrumental in setting up a large part of women's ability to gain wider employment opportunities, be supported at home or combine the two through their work on employment law, development aid, NGOs, benefits and taxation mechanisms and so on.

Another place you could start with is a GCSE geography text book. I am helping DS revise at the moment and it is covered in that for a variety of different countries.

bamboostalks · 20/05/2014 15:00

The days of SAHPs are completely numbered. Our generation will be the last to have this debate at all. It won't be an issue for our daughters as they will all have to work. House prices in this country are beserk and there is no way that we can support households where just one person chooses to work, their pensions alone will need to be funded. What on earth are all these people planning with their lives? If they have not developed a career whilst younger they will be in a dead end job between 50-70 trying to rack up their NI contributions. We are all facing a long life time of work. Unless you are among the tiny elite.

deepinthewoods · 20/05/2014 15:04

" House prices in this country are beserk" - but that's in the London and the SE with the deluge of foreign buyers inflating the prices.

In other parts of the country house prices are fine.

capsium · 20/05/2014 15:08

And I guess there will always be parents who need to SAH, for one reason or another.... what would happen to those they care for?

capsium · 20/05/2014 15:10

Where is all this 'Big Society' if everybody is busy, busy, busy, up to their limits working (paid) full time?

Retropear · 20/05/2014 15:12

Bamboo many workers aren't contributing to state pensions let alone a private pension.

Many sahp will have set up private pensions prior which they'll contribute to again after.Some of us shock horror may well be paying into pensions as a sahp.

handcream · 20/05/2014 15:13

Bamboo - which is why edcuation is so important to the young. Issue is they see others not working for whatever reason (and lets not get into whether SAHM is better or worse than WM's) and its difficult to say, well I choose to not work but you will have to..

My work doesnt require me to communte into London anymore. I did then when younger but my company offers home working as the norm and although I am out at least 50% of the time visiting clients my time is my own. It does mean I often have to work at the weekend but just admin type paperwork which can often be done in front of the TV

I really really know I am extremely lucky to have this sort of position which I why I wont give it up.

almondcakes · 20/05/2014 15:13

Yes, I was just assuming that my DD would stay in the North, buy a reasonably priced house, have kids in her twenties and then have a choice of returning to work full or part time or being a SAHM. If she is single and therefore on a lower income, presumably there will still be tax credits for childcare etc, and if not, family will help her out.

The issues will be generally the same. Hopefully if anything they might improve if people stop being less sexist to older women reentering the work force. If you are at work from 50 to 70, then you have as much time to develop a career as a person from 20-40. Society should more widely recognise that some people have their major career development and commitment later in life.