Can we talk about female violence? I need to get my response straight

[GrassIsSinging]

I know this is celeb rubbish, but am finding my blood boiling over comments from FB friends and the like over the Solange Knowles -punching-Jay Z debacle.

Lots of seemingly conscious, smart, reasonable people condemning violence of any sort (great, agreed), but then saying things like 'the double standards in society sicken me...Chris brown beats Rihanna and he is a monster...Solange attacks Jay Z and people dont respond in the same way'. Others (people I thought were decent) saying 'You couldnt have blamed him for hitting back...people have a right to defend themselves' etc.

This riles me massively. Am I a freak for thinking that male violence against women IS often (not always, but very often) much more devastating than vice versa? Because men are usually physically stronger...because male violence against women is a huge problem in this world...? And that a decent man will not hit a woman, even if provoked. Is this an 'old fashioned ' view now?

Feminism doesnt mean we now have to accept men punching us, ffs!

Depressed...

[risagburst]

"That is exactly patriarchy."

No it's feminism.

Hitting men seen as fine but hitting women seen as the worst crime on earth.

Was that a self defence situation? Or did she hit him because she didn't expect him to hit back (because he's male and she's female)?

[OutsSelf]

Okay, the only thing that example.proves is the lack of actual position and argument risagburst has. I'm starting to wonder I'd that poster is the beta test of an MRA bot, just firing random and unconnected idiocies into the thread, be cause there's no actual engagement or reasoning here. We should eschew our conditioning as interlocutors who respond well and thoughtfully to everything someone says as if it were a tenable position worthy of respect and just deny those intersections as even worth responding to.

Here's a question, can anyone point to an example of systemic female violence? I can think of female involvement in patriarchal violence, but no actual example of violence perpetrated by women which doesn't nevertheless conform to patriarchal standards. I hav to go out now but would love input.

[risagburst]

"he smacks back harder."

His (puny) slap did look a (little) harder than hers. But I doubt she will have any injuries or broken bones.

[OutsSelf]

Arg will stop it in a minute, but

Hitting men seen as fine but hitting women seen as the worst crime on earth.

IS A CONSTUCTION OF PATRIARCHY WHICH EVERYONE HERE OBJECTS TO you massive massive idiot.

[MyMannateeBringsTheBoystotheYa]

NO I think the far worse crime is that many men piling on to a contestant on an ill advised gameshow.

Who told you the worst thing was her being hit by him?

[MyMannateeBringsTheBoystotheYa]

I almost feel bad for all the women on this thread who were so kindly and intelligently attempting to point out the inaccuracies in everything you said some of your posts. There really isn't much point, you don't get it. You don't seem to have the capability.

I feel like the only thing we could do on your level to make you understand is to call you a knobber and run away.

[risagburst]

I haven't called anyone names or resorted to personal insults.

[risagburst]

No I haven't called anyone an idiot or a "knobber" or anything like that.

And I believe noone should hit anyone except when self-defence is justified.

What "male entitlement" do you refer to?

[Waltermittythesequel]

Well done to risa for getting it right. How unusual for an MRA

[ezinma]

Here's a question, can anyone point to an example of systemic female violence … which doesn't nevertheless conform to patriarchal standards?

As we live in patriarchy, I think that would be impossible.

Women's physical violence against other women can be systemic — in girl's schools, in same-sex couples, in segregated sports. But, for the reasons that you (brilliantly) outline, women are socialised not to (know how to) use physical violence effectively. They assert power in other ways, through what we might call 'symbolic violence'. To what extent they (are able to) apply effective symbolic violence against men in ways that could be considered systemic or gendered is little studied and poorly theorised. I suspect that, as with DV, much of the symbolic violence perpetuated by women is a response to the pervasive institutional violence carried out against them under patriarchy.

[MyMannateeBringsTheBoystotheYa]

Hey Risa if you agree that the man in the video's slap was both puny and harder than hers.. Does that mean her slap was less than puny? Do you think maybe it's possible that she was not trying to physically hurt him at all, just humiliate him as per ridiculous the show that he signed up to?

[ezinma]

Women's physical violence against other women can be systemic — in girl's schools, in same-sex couples, in segregated sports.

And, above all, within families, of course.

[RonaldMcDonald]

I think that we agree that violence in any form is not what we approve of or condone as feminists or hopefully as a society.

I have worked with many men who have suffered extensive domestic abuse from women either IP or IF and that has been very difficult for me to reconcile personally.
I think that if we acknowledged that many women can also be violent or consistently verbally abusive/controlling/coercive then those women would be able to gain help. I know that many of them must feel desperate and have little support available to them.

[FloraFox]

gah, the stupid is out in force.

[CaptChaos]

No one has said that it's ok for anyone to hit anyone.

No one has said that women who perpetrate DV against their partners are right to do so.

My DS has ASD, he used to sit under tables sometimes and call out random phrases he had seen or heard and liked the sound of. The token MRA sounds so much like him. Regurgitating phrases he has seen no doubt on some lovely site such as AVfM all over an intelligent discussion, because he is MAN and we should all sit dutifully and take note.

Because male entitlement and patriarchy.

[AskBasil]

What's so instructive, is how very stupid he is.

He clearly hasn't read the thread and yet expects that because he stumbles in here and waves his willy around, we will all stand to respectful attention. Ignoring the fact that you can almost guarantee that every single woman on this thread is better educated, better read and better informed than him about this issue and many others.

Oh to have such blithe confidence in the worthiness of your own opinions, irrespective of how hopelessly uninformed by any small nugget of information they are.

[NeilDiamondRocks]

What the hell?? Even my husband asks what the HELL is wrong with men!?

[OutsSelf]

That's really interesting ezinma. It made me think about the symbolic practices of violence in my own family which are all around, I would say, the beauty and the regulation of the body. There is a really quite harmful violence around food; on the one hand a strong reproduction of standards of thinness but on the other, regularly enforced (when I was a child) and promoted (now I am an adult) overeating. That collective effort is definitely made by women in my family (though obviously inside and in line with patriarchal values).

[OutsSelf]

I'm with Buffy on this; a neat micro study of male entitlement. Some clear attempts at mansplaining, too, with the insistent assertion that x or y qualities are "feminism" or "feminist."

[RonaldMcDonald]

Er....am I supposed to be waving my willy around or was that directed elsewhere?