I'm so angry that I have to be a feminist.

[QueenStromba]

Why can't I just be a person? I feel like a person but I'm not a person because I'm a woman. Men can just be people but women are less than real people. I've always felt grateful that I don't live in the Middle East where I couldn't drive a car or go out on my own but the scales have fallen from my eyes and I see now that I am part of the underclass because I have a vagina. I tried to tell myself that it didn't matter but I was just kidding myself. I have a vagina and that makes me less important than if I had a penis even in 21st century Britain. I can't even imagine how bad women in other countries have it.

I have never been assaulted by anyone. Nor have I been raped.

And thank goodness for that. But it doesn't alter the fact that many, many women are all too often assaulted - with non-sexual violence and with sexual violence. (And I'm not really quite sure why you would separate one from the other, as they are both violent assaults)

But yet again, I see we're being drawn into a 'what about the menz' conversation.

If it's any consolation you do have female privileges:

Breast cancer gets several times more funding than prostate cancer despite the latter killing almost as many people as the former.

As Buffy said, this is because women got together and changed breast cancer from a terrible taboo into something that women can fight, they have raised huge sums of money to do this. The funding comes from women coming together and raising the money, not from government. Even the breast screening program started because women fought for it. Men need to get off their collective arses and raise money for prostate cancer. Bill Bailey would love for you to join Men United and help to raise money. Women don't have to fight men's fights for them, we have enough to deal with.

You still have the privilege of chivalry- men are expected to pay for meals, men are expected to give up their seats for women, judges are more lenient on female defendants etc

Feminists don't expect anyone to pay for meals, we don't want you give up your seat for us and judges are far less lenient on women, as you've been shown. I think you're confusing Feminists with women from the 1950's.

You are at less risk of violence and less risk of being challenged to a fight than a man

We might be less at risk of being challenged to a fight, but we are probably equally at risk of male violence. This is also something for men to sort out for themselves. Male violence needs to be challenged by men, Feminists merely point to it, in the hope that you might deal with it.

Less chance of being homeless/ending up in prison/dying in a workplace accident/dying from suicide

Homeless women do get more help when homeless. This is because everyone except you and people of your stamp understands that women are far more vulnerable when forced to live on the streets, that they are vulnerable to predators, pimps and drugs dealers in a way that men aren't. As has been shown, they are MORE likely to end up in prison for the same crime. Women statistically commit less crime, and the crime they commit tends to be less likely to be violent. Yes, men are more likely to die in the workplace, they often do more dangerous jobs, why might that be, do you think? Could it possibly be that those jobs attract higher pay and are therefore more likely to be ones which men are more likely to get? Yes, they are, who would have thought! Yes, more young men die from suicide than the same demographic of women, this is very sad, and something I have worked with before. Sadly, this is also because men are expected to act and live in certain ways because that is what other men expect of them. Not women's fault either, sorry.

...also I believe some of the suicide differential comes from chosen method - men are more likely to select methods that are fatal first time, IIRC.

soxuhupe wrote - "UK judges have actually been told to be lenient on defendants who own a vagina."

The advice for judges is to encourage them to bring their treatment of women into line with their treatment of men. This would make things more equal because judges have been treating men more leniently than women. It's not about treating women more leniently than men, which is what you (and the newspaper article you linked to) are implying.

OP - just a quick post to agree: I am also angry that I have to be a feminist.

soxuhupe wrote - "You still have the privilege of chivalry"

Deciding whether I should have chivalry or equal rights is an easy choice for me:

Have a man offer me a seat on a bus, or have a man not sexually harass me on a bus?
I choose freedom from sexual harassment.

Have a man pay for my dinner (sometimes expecting sex as repayment of supposedly equal value), or have employers pay me the same money for doing the same job as a man?
I choose equal pay, which would enable me to buy my own dinner.

You can keep your chivalry. It's just "sexism with a patronising smile".

(disclaimer: I'm not saying a man offering a seat to a woman is sexual harassment, I'm trying to show that chivalry is froth which is used to divert people from thinking about more important inequalities)

Doc very true. Which is why women's suicide attempts, no matter how serious they were are often looked at as 'cries for help' rather than actually wanting to die. When you work in the field you realise how bloody patronising that is to women. Women are socialised from their earliest moments not to make a fuss, to be tidy, to be seen and not heard, this is reflected in their choices of methods of suicide, it also means that the methods they choose tend to be less effective, and are seen, by a predominantly male psychiatric industry as lesser, further evidence of women 'just being a bit silly really'. Pills are a 'no mess, no fuss' way of very quietly doing away with yourself and are often women's 'weapon of choice'. Men tend to choose things like hanging, gassing themselves in their cars, shooting themselves, jumping from bridges and cliffs etc. More effective, but more for others to tidy up. If that makes sense.

but a few hundred men do get breast cancer each year in the UK, one to every hundred or so women I think

when they do they are more likely to die of it

although have completely missed the point of what this has to do with feminism?

Mitchy It's the usual litany of 'women have it better than men' that a certain type of poster likes to vomit bring up a lot on the FWR boards.

Would you like a bingo card, there's a couple of things he hasn't pointed out yet. I have a spare dabber for you as well, if you want one

as for suicide men are better at taking human life than women, for whatever reason

ok why not, do we all shout house at the same time?

I don't see how the depression and suicide thing can be used as an illustration of men having a worse time of things, we know the rates of depression are much much higher in women even after controlling for help-seeking behaviour

What saddens me greatly is feminists have to spend so much time proving that what they experience everyday to be true. It is so depressing, even more so when it is other women we are arguing against.

I am a woman, I have, and still do, experience sexism most days, and it fucks me off.

I have a vagina that does not mean that my partner, with the penis, is any better than me at working in an office, or that I am better at looking after our children or cleaning the house. I am not better at picking out kids clothes, getting them ready for school, sorting out homework, play dates, afterschool activites etc.....no I am not, but all questions regarding these matters will fall to me, and I am expected to feel lucky that my partner, with the penis, is doing so well in his career and bringing in money to the household. NOT fucked off that having children has totally ruined my career, that I worked so hard for, no because I was just playing at grown up, now I am a wife and mother.

I have to say, my partner, is a feminist and we are slowly re-adjusting the balance as I return to work. He does not understand why other people are not feminists too, nor do I.

I want it to be better for our children.

Mitchy1nge wrote - "I don't see how the depression and suicide thing can be used as an illustration of men having a worse time of things"

I agree. The suicide rate for white American men is double the rate for African American men. That does not mean that white American men have more difficult lives than African American men.

TBH it pisses me off that people think I can do all these things to do with children because I am a woman and have some sort of maternal instinct. I read everything up in books.

I was under the impression that prostate cancer was something that most men die with but very few die of. I don't see what prostate cancer has to do with being a woman and therefore a second class citizen though.

Oh, sox has apparently been shown the door.

Super surprising, right?

That's interesting Capt. I read that 85% of gun suicides are fatal but only 3% of overdoses (US Stats) - that that and the accidental child/gun killings aren't sufficient arguments for gun control in the US is beyond me.

MNHQ are very good at banning misogynists.

QueenStromba sometimes it is easier not to think about it all, isn't it. I agree it is very depressing. I think we have a need to believe we live in a fair world and it is hard to come to terms with the fact that we don't.

I too am angry OP. So much sometimes that I get overwhelmed and can't even find the words to express exactly what the cause is.
It is like having a bizarre superpower that enables me to see the unfairness in everything, everywhere, and everyone and it's exhausting to have to keep pointing it out to others who can't see it before it can be dealt with.
So glad this board exists and is populated with people whose see it all too.

judges are more lenient on female defendants

A common complaint on crime conviction stories on the Daily Fail is 'And yet again the woman gets a lighter sentence than the man!' I think that's where a lot of this myth comes from. If you look at the cases, the women usually get lighter sentencing because they are usually the sidekicks/accomplices, especially in violent crime. I read a story last month about a man who beat someone up on a bus, while his girlfriend held his beer can for him. The DM readers were outraged that she didn't get a custodial sentence too!

It is like having a bizarre superpower that enables me to see the unfairness in everything, everywhere, and everyone and it's exhausting to have to keep pointing it out to others

What a brilliant way of describing it! There is also the added 'Cassandra' effect - people don't want to hear the truth so get very angry with you for pointing it out! Recently I have lost a male "friend" over this. Not someone I was close to, but a partner of a friend. About 6 months ago, we were in a group of friends chatting when this man started spouting rape myths (younger girls shouldn't dress older/men have needs so women shouldn't provoke rape by the way they dress etc). I was shocked, as was another female member of the group and we both argued vociferously against him. Since then he has refused to talk to us and won't come along when we all get together and my friend (a really lovely person) makes embarrassed excuses for him and how he felt that we picked on him a bit.

Obviously losing a "friend" like that has not left me terribly bothered but what annoys me is that his stance has broken up the group; we now all meet less often and the camaraderie is broken. There is an implication that this is the fault of myself and the other woman who stood up to him. Also, as a man, he has been allowed to take this childish, sulky stance, whereas myself and the other woman involved have been expected to "win him over" if you like.

Clearly we have failed to do that!

But Gatorade, you just don't get it. The man is a poor animal who can't possibly be held accountable for his natural, violent reactions. It was his girlfriend's duty, as a woman and therefore eternally to blame for everything, as pointed out by the bible, to stop him! Really he should have been sent home with a bone to chew and she should have been put in solitary for failing in her Moral Duty!!